|
|
Post by ouroboros on Jan 31, 2016 18:02:11 GMT
Yup. They come from a highly proflic source in Scandinavia.Hes still in the game as well
|
|
|
|
Post by IggyWiggy on Jan 31, 2016 18:24:24 GMT
Apologies for pasting the above link, but I'm proud of the work and as it now appears no reference is made to the poor state it was in. Sadly, the way this Banksy was damaged when stolen will not be taken into account when sold. There will be very little of the original artists work on show. Beautiful relief mural... Would love to see the WIP pictures... Cannot even imagine the gargantuan task of putting it back together.  sean |
|
|
|
Post by sean on Jan 31, 2016 20:12:07 GMT
Apologies for pasting the above link, but I'm proud of the work and as it now appears no reference is made to the poor state it was in. Sadly, the way this Banksy was damaged when stolen will not be taken into account when sold. There will be very little of the original artists work on show. Beautiful relief mural... Would love to see the WIP pictures... Cannot even imagine the gargantuan task of putting it back together. Thanks for your comments. The work was about 25 years ago and being a prat ( and going through an arty phase ) I only took B&W pics. D'oh! I have recently scanned them and will get a couple of examples up to illustrate the WIP. What pleased me though was that I've been searching for umpteen years trying to find where the finished mural ended up. I knew it went back into the refurbished Trocadero Centre, but repeated calls and emails to the centre have been met with a 'no idea mate' response. So imagine how chuffed I was to discover a London tour guide had put some pics up online. I was only involved in assembling the mural, and some of the sculpting. The bulk of the work was done by the bosses daughter, the artist Sarah Gillespie. www.sarahgillespie.co.uk |
|
|
|
Post by lee3 on Feb 1, 2016 17:50:48 GMT
Is the dude in the cap above the same fella on the right in the video below from the croydon ieak punk heist/restoration of 5 or 6 years ago? I'm hardly a detective but they look similar to my untrained eyes. Not that anything can be done about it but I just don't comprehend the notion to remove concrete paintings that people enjoy going out of their way to visit. news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8534004.stmnews.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8534004.stm |
|
|
|
Post by lonelyfarmer on Feb 1, 2016 19:35:13 GMT
...............  Similar, slightly different scum I think. |
|
|
|
Post by dodcoquelicot on Feb 1, 2016 22:06:35 GMT
As sais Matt , a part of London street-art history..
This one was lovely, very classy , for Voina then.,
Where can be this dog and his master now? ...
Sad news... Did they feed them at least ? ..
|
|
|
|
Post by anakissed on Feb 1, 2016 22:39:05 GMT
People will only remove street are if they think there's a market for it...so it's the people buying this stuff that need shaming  |
|
|
|
Post by anakissed on Feb 1, 2016 22:41:47 GMT
There should be a boycott on removed/stolen street art!  |
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Plip on Feb 2, 2016 0:06:40 GMT
As sais Matt , a part of London street-art history.. This one was lovely, very classy , for Voina then., Where can be this dog and his master now? ... Sad news... Did they feed them at least ? .. Just for perverted curiosity (and a bit of schadenfreude), I am dying to see what those muppets have left of the plaster & painting. I hope it's in a million pieces. May their grandchildren still be gluing it back together. |
|
|
|
Post by Still Hate Thatcher on Feb 2, 2016 18:37:05 GMT
Is the dude in the cap above the same fella on the right in the video below from the croydon ieak punk heist/restoration of 5 or 6 years ago? I'm hardly a detective but they look similar to my untrained eyes. Not that anything can be done about it but I just don't comprehend the notion to remove concrete paintings that people enjoy going out of their way to visit. news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8534004.stmnews.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8534004.stmThat's Nick Loizou andBradley Ridge who owns Function Five and sells Lucas Price's stuff. Did we ever get to the bottom of Lucas and his allies outsourcing?   |
|
|
|
Post by dodcoquelicot on Feb 2, 2016 19:20:03 GMT
Thank you Still Hate Tatacher ! They look like wankers, pics confirming that !
Is these kind of men we are talking too on the B or not B Fora, without knowing their real names, while they mock you ? Fuck them ! I am sure they were at dismaland too !
Wankers is the real name !
|
|
|
|
Post by IggyWiggy on Feb 4, 2016 19:42:46 GMT
   THE WORLD-famous Arches could be reopened - if three rare Banksy artworks at the venue can be sold. Administrators for the popular Glasgow theatre and nightclub are investigating whether the works by the illusive street artist can be restored and auctioned off. Previous wall-based works by graffiti artist Banksy have been snapped up for hundreds of thousands of pounds each - and the Arches has three of them. They were done as part of an exhibition in 2002 when Banksy was relatively unknown, but he is now a household name, despite his true identity being a closely-guarded secret. Two of the Banksy drawings are inside the former nightclub on an arch-shaped dividing wall which leads into the venue’s toilets. One is a Mona Lisa with her head surrounded by a picture frame, while the other is a gun-toting monkey sporting a ballet tutu. In between the Mona Lisa and the monkey, Banksy daubed in red paint: “Every time I hear the word culture I release the safety in my 9mm.” Both, however, are in a bad state of repair, having been partially painted over with grey emulsion. All that is left of the work is the slightly contorted face of the Mona Lisa and a pair of monkey legs clad in a pink tutu. The third artwork is outside the venue on Midland Street, and is also of a gun-toting monkey. It too is in a state of dis-repair after being power-hosed in the past, leaving it is only just visible. At present they are said to be worth ‘very little’, but if restored their value would soar... www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/arches-bank-banksy-famous-glasgow-7303893#ydwAWAJyVvIfdUAW.99 |
|
|
|
Post by curiousgeorge on Feb 4, 2016 22:58:10 GMT
Correct if I'm wrong but since pc (or longer) no street works actually hammer?
Sad as it is to see them go, its kinda part of the game. End result if these are not actually selling is people spending fortunes on removing,restoring,storing and touting them around the world to rich folk who know no better??
Surprised to see the unbonded section of brickwork above that is already leaning is still in place.
|
|
|
|
Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Feb 4, 2016 23:48:05 GMT
Correct if I'm wrong but since pc (or longer) no street works actually hammer? Sad as it is to see them go, its kinda part of the game. End result if these are not actually selling is people spending fortunes on removing,restoring,storing and touting them around the world to rich folk who know no better?? Surprised to see the unbonded section of brickwork above that is already leaning is still in place. REALLY hate to say this, and obviously just my opinion, but I think after B hangs up his spray cans, someone will come along and start authenticating them with some level of authority (yes, Vermin tried, but it would be a different situation once there's no new work) and they will be highly desired by both museums and rich collectors. now they just sit mostly unsold in warehouses, but they'll become the most desired Banksys, followed by 1/1 originals, editioned canvases and finally signed prints. (i never got the point of paying a shit ton of money for an unsigned print, but that's just me. he's got hands and pencils around - no reason not to sign every print). they're expensive now partly because a ton of people are hiding them under their beds but my guess is eventually people would rather have, say, a rare Stop Esso poster or even an old t-shirt than an unsigned print with 600 copies floating around he's a street artist and arguably the most important artist of this generation. the street pieces are the most iconic, important, and popular. when people visit MoMA in 50 years, they'll want to see a cut out chunk of wall again, I fucking hate this and think pieces should be left in situ to fade away or get painted over, but think it's an unfortunate inevitability |
|
|
|
Post by IggyWiggy on Feb 5, 2016 13:04:43 GMT
I can't help but think, in the long term term, you'll be right sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ. Dubious/questionable decisions surrounding the removal of art in the interests of it's preservation have gone on for hundreds of years, often overlooked by later generations enjoying it in a sanitised, air-conditioned, humidity-controlled museum. |
|
|
|
Post by lee3 on Feb 5, 2016 16:36:59 GMT
Correct if I'm wrong but since pc (or longer) no street works actually hammer? Sad as it is to see them go, its kinda part of the game. End result if these are not actually selling is people spending fortunes on removing,restoring,storing and touting them around the world to rich folk who know no better?? Surprised to see the unbonded section of brickwork above that is already leaning is still in place. REALLY hate to say this, and obviously just my opinion, but I think after B hangs up his spray cans, someone will come along and start authenticating them with some level of authority (yes, Vermin tried, but it would be a different situation once there's no new work) and they will be highly desired by both museums and rich collectors. now they just sit mostly unsold in warehouses, but they'll become the most desired Banksys, followed by 1/1 originals, editioned canvases and finally signed prints. (i never got the point of paying a shit ton of money for an unsigned print, but that's just me. he's got hands and pencils around - no reason not to sign every print). they're expensive now partly because a ton of people are hiding them under their beds but my guess is eventually people would rather have, say, a rare Stop Esso poster or even an old t-shirt than an unsigned print with 600 copies floating around he's a street artist and arguably the most important artist of this generation. the street pieces are the most iconic, important, and popular. when people visit MoMA in 50 years, they'll want to see a cut out chunk of wall again, I fucking hate this and think pieces should be left in situ to fade away or get painted over, but think it's an unfortunate inevitability Not to be argumentative but I disagree and believe it's already an open and shut case. There will be a tiny, predatory market I concur but even there the works will be pennies on the dollar and beyond difficult to sell compared with authenticated pieces. All one needs to do is look at precedent. You have Haring and Basquiat estates both refusing to authenticate their street works and there is no market for them. You'll see a few dealers attempt to sell the subway drawings in Haring's case but they never shift and when they do it's for $10-30k which is a pale shade of value compared to something authenticated at that size. None of the primary auction houses will touch them and they are treated akin to fakes by the wider art market. In Banksy's case you have a living artist who proclaimed that he will not authenticate those works effective 2008 and the primary auction houses will never sell them nor would most museums have anything to do with them. Further, there is no artist that the market accepts authenticating paperwork from dueling entities and any entity that attempted to validate street works would do so against the specified wishes of the artist. Vermin felt flat on its face from the onset and any attempt by a subsequent entity, even posthumously, will meet the same fate. |
|
|
|
Post by IggyWiggy on Feb 5, 2016 17:35:45 GMT
REALLY hate to say this, and obviously just my opinion, but I think after B hangs up his spray cans, someone will come along and start authenticating them with some level of authority (yes, Vermin tried, but it would be a different situation once there's no new work) and they will be highly desired by both museums and rich collectors. now they just sit mostly unsold in warehouses, but they'll become the most desired Banksys, followed by 1/1 originals, editioned canvases and finally signed prints. (i never got the point of paying a shit ton of money for an unsigned print, but that's just me. he's got hands and pencils around - no reason not to sign every print). they're expensive now partly because a ton of people are hiding them under their beds but my guess is eventually people would rather have, say, a rare Stop Esso poster or even an old t-shirt than an unsigned print with 600 copies floating around he's a street artist and arguably the most important artist of this generation. the street pieces are the most iconic, important, and popular. when people visit MoMA in 50 years, they'll want to see a cut out chunk of wall again, I fucking hate this and think pieces should be left in situ to fade away or get painted over, but think it's an unfortunate inevitability Not to be argumentative but I disagree and believe it's already an open and shut case. There will be a tiny, predatory market I concur but even there the works will be pennies on the dollar and beyond difficult to sell compared with authenticated pieces. All one needs to do is look at precedent. You have Haring and Basquiat estates both refusing to authenticate their street works and there is no market for them. You'll see a few dealers attempt to sell the subway drawings in Haring's case but they never shift and when they do it's for $10-30k which is a pale shade of value compared to something authenticated at that size. None of the primary auction houses will touch them and they are treated akin to fakes by the wider art market. In Banksy's case you have a living artist who proclaimed that he will not authenticate those works effective 2008 and the primary auction houses will never sell them nor would most museums have anything to do with them. Further, there is no artist that the market accepts authenticating paperwork from dueling entities and any entity that attempted to validate street works would do so against the specified wishes of the artist. Vermin felt flat on its face from the onset and any attempt by a subsequent entity, even posthumously, will meet the same fate. argumentative git |
|
|
|
Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Feb 5, 2016 17:45:36 GMT
REALLY hate to say this, and obviously just my opinion, but I think after B hangs up his spray cans, someone will come along and start authenticating them with some level of authority (yes, Vermin tried, but it would be a different situation once there's no new work) and they will be highly desired by both museums and rich collectors. now they just sit mostly unsold in warehouses, but they'll become the most desired Banksys, followed by 1/1 originals, editioned canvases and finally signed prints. (i never got the point of paying a shit ton of money for an unsigned print, but that's just me. he's got hands and pencils around - no reason not to sign every print). they're expensive now partly because a ton of people are hiding them under their beds but my guess is eventually people would rather have, say, a rare Stop Esso poster or even an old t-shirt than an unsigned print with 600 copies floating around he's a street artist and arguably the most important artist of this generation. the street pieces are the most iconic, important, and popular. when people visit MoMA in 50 years, they'll want to see a cut out chunk of wall again, I fucking hate this and think pieces should be left in situ to fade away or get painted over, but think it's an unfortunate inevitability Not to be argumentative but I disagree and believe it's already an open and shut case. There will be a tiny, predatory market I concur but even there the works will be pennies on the dollar and beyond difficult to sell compared with authenticated pieces. All one needs to do is look at precedent. You have Haring and Basquiat estates both refusing to authenticate their street works and there is no market for them. You'll see a few dealers attempt to sell the subway drawings in Haring's case but they never shift and when they do it's for $10-30k which is a pale shade of value compared to something authenticated at that size. None of the primary auction houses will touch them and they are treated akin to fakes by the wider art market. In Banksy's case you have a living artist who proclaimed that he will not authenticate those works effective 2008 and the primary auction houses will never sell them nor would most museums have anything to do with them. Further, there is no artist that the market accepts authenticating paperwork from dueling entities and any entity that attempted to validate street works would do so against the specified wishes of the artist. Vermin felt flat on its face from the onset and any attempt by a subsequent entity, even posthumously, will meet the same fate. you make some very valid points, and I guess only time will tell. don't see PC existing though after Banksys done, or maybe even before that - between rumors of lawsuits, less and less new pieces around, and POW slowly fading away. when the Warhol Board closed shop, it didn't take long before Polsky stepped up and became the defacto authenticator. i'd imagine the same thing happens with Banksy, and that whoever assumes the mantle opens up to street pieces Haring and basquiat embraced both commercial work and the art establishment more than Banksy, to the point where I think the general population thinks of them as artists first, then graffiti artists second. you don't see anyone going up to Harlem and cutting out the "Crack is Wack" mural. but I did see some tequila with Haring artwork the other day. but to most people Banksy = street art. i really hope I'm wrong and every single person that's cut a wall out gets burnt badly, but with how regularly it's occurring, with no sign of stopping anytime soon, my guess is this is going to be the future. who the fuck knows. maybe I'm wrong. but either way it's fucking really depressing that seeing entire pieces of walls being cut out is now considered almost normal |
|
|
|
Post by IggyWiggy on Feb 5, 2016 17:47:03 GMT
I hear what you're saying, despite that many works are now featured on Banksy's website, these are still largely regarded as untouchable without the appropriate provenance. However, sometimes 'leaps of faith' are known to be made in the art world. Would the situation alter posthumously? Can't help but think of the Warhol Foundation and it's ultimate demise. As an aside I also wonder whether not awarding authentication to something is the same as stamping 'Denied' on it's reverse? Edit - I typed this before seeing sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ 's reply. I was responding to lee3 . If anyone cares. |
|
|
|
Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Feb 5, 2016 17:50:51 GMT
I hear what you're saying, despite that many works are now featured on Banksy's website, these are still largely regarded as untouchable without the appropriate provenance. However, sometimes 'leaps of faith' are known to be made in the art world. Would the situation alter posthumously? Can't help but think of the Warhol Foundation and it's ultimate demise. As an side I also wonder whether not awarding authentication to something is the same as stamping 'Denied' on it's reverse? trust me, I'm with you. but my gut instinct is that at some point in time, buying and selling walls will be no big deal to these assholes... all it would take is one auction house (or even just one new director of an auction house) to change the rules, and the rest will follow |
|
|
|
Post by lee3 on Feb 5, 2016 18:50:57 GMT
>>>>when the Warhol Board closed shop, it didn't take long before Polsky stepped up and became the defacto authenticator<<<<
The market imo has not been swayed in any manner whatsoever by Polsky's attempt to fill a void. Most of the authentication of those boards is long since complete and they had arrived at the point where there was far more risk than reward. I know Richard personally, he's a local friend but i do not believe the market will ever accept his word on authentication. Courtrooms certainly have as an expert witness but collectors will not make multi million dollar decisions based on his opinion. Regardless, the overwhelming majority of work of the artists that died in the 80s has already been authenticated.
One last point on Richard is that he's trying to align himself with the wishes of those artists/estates as opposed to arguing a counter position which is what the Vermin's of the world seek to do (and fail). But Richard himself has nothing to lose (unlike the estates) so it's easy for him to try to fill that void. However, there is no recourse for the potential multi million dollar purchaser if they buy something he deems valid that is ultimately proved invalid and therefore I see little value with what he's attempting to do. He's a good writer anyway and I suspect that will remain his focus.
>>>but my gut instinct is that at some point in time, buying and selling walls will be no big deal to these assholes... all it would take is one auction house (or even just one new director of an auction house) to change the rules, and the rest will follow<<<
There is plenty of evidence of tier 4 auction houses trying to sell unauthenticated works and it hasn't worked out in their favor. They are seemingly grasping at straws to remain in business and in turn makes them look nothing but weak. It is a very poor long term business decision to prey upon your customers by selling work that they can only attempt to sell later on through the same auction house. No respected institution will ever touch unauthenticated work as their reputation risk far outweighs any potential short term premium on a 10 foot, 2 tonne wall that sells for $75k to the greater fool.
|
|
|
|
Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Feb 5, 2016 18:59:35 GMT
>>>>when the Warhol Board closed shop, it didn't take long before Polsky stepped up and became the defacto authenticator<<<< The market imo has not been swayed in any manner whatsoever by Polsky's attempt to fill a void. Most of the authentication of those boards is long since complete and they had arrived at the point where there was far more risk than reward. I know Richard personally, he's a local friend but i do not believe the market will ever accept his word on authentication. Courtrooms certainly have as an expert witness but collectors will not make multi million dollar decisions based on his opinion. Regardless, the overwhelming majority of work of the artists that died in the 80s has already been authenticated. >>>but my gut instinct is that at some point in time, buying and selling walls will be no big deal to these assholes... all it would take is one auction house (or even just one new director of an auction house) to change the rules, and the rest will follow<<< There is plenty of evidence of tier 4 auction houses trying to sell unauthenticated works and it hasn't worked out in their favor. They are seemingly grasping at straws to remain in business and in turn makes them look nothing but weak. It is a very poor long term business decision to prey upon your customers by selling work that they can only attempt to sell later on through the same auction house. No respected institution will ever touch unauthenticated work as their reputation risk far outweighs any potential short term premium on a 10 foot, 2 tonne wall that sells for $75k to the greater fool. only time will tell and again, hope I'm wrong. i don't have a dog in this fight - don't even own a Banksy print or canvas (and presumably never will), let along a giant chunk of wall, . but as a fan it makes me both sad and angry to see what happens to his street pieces and the increasing regularity of it happening gives me a feeling of a changing tide |
|
|
|
Post by lee3 on Feb 5, 2016 19:18:41 GMT
>>>but as a fan it makes me both sad and angry to see what happens to his street pieces and the increasing regularity of it happening gives me a feeling of a changing tide<<<
I agree wholeheartedly and sadly conclude that it's a sign of ignorance. Many of the folks removing these pieces do so under the pretense that they've hit the jackpot only to discover later that there is no leprechaun under the rainbow. In the case of CYW, that thing looked so poorly removed that I don't expect we'll ever even see that one again looking for the greater fool. The end result is that people wasted their Saturday having their photos taken failing in their attempt to remove something that brought a smile to a lot of passersby. They could not have been more wrong on their thesis they would enrich themselves nor could they have been more wrong on their removal strategy and as a result are a damn fine example of our own collective stupidity.
|
|
|
|
Post by Still Hate Thatcher on Feb 5, 2016 19:40:30 GMT
>>>but as a fan it makes me both sad and angry to see what happens to his street pieces and the increasing regularity of it happening gives me a feeling of a changing tide<<< I agree wholeheartedly and sadly conclude that it's a sign of ignorance. Many of the folks removing these pieces do so under the pretense that they've hit the jackpot only to discover later that there is no leprechaun under the rainbow. In the case of CYW, that thing looked so poorly removed that I don't expect we'll ever even see that one again looking for the greater fool. The end result is that people wasted their Saturday having their photos taken failing in their attempt to remove something that brought a smile to a lot of passersby. They could not have been more wrong on their thesis they would enrich themselves nor could they have been more wrong on their removal strategy and as a result are a damn fine example of our own collective stupidity. I think collective stupidity is too wide ranging but agree with the main thrust of your argument... |
|
|
|
Post by curiousgeorge on Feb 6, 2016 1:11:28 GMT
Correct if I'm wrong but since pc (or longer) no street works actually hammer? Sad as it is to see them go, its kinda part of the game. End result if these are not actually selling is people spending fortunes on removing,restoring,storing and touting them around the world to rich folk who know no better?? Surprised to see the unbonded section of brickwork above that is already leaning is still in place. REALLY hate to say this, and obviously just my opinion, but I think after B hangs up his spray cans, someone will come along and start authenticating them with some level of authority (yes, Vermin tried, but it would be a different situation once there's no new work) and they will be highly desired by both museums and rich collectors. now they just sit mostly unsold in warehouses, but they'll become the most desired Banksys, followed by 1/1 originals, editioned canvases and finally signed prints. (i never got the point of paying a shit ton of money for an unsigned print, but that's just me. he's got hands and pencils around - no reason not to sign every print). they're expensive now partly because a ton of people are hiding them under their beds but my guess is eventually people would rather have, say, a rare Stop Esso poster or even an old t-shirt than an unsigned print with 600 copies floating around he's a street artist and arguably the most important artist of this generation. the street pieces are the most iconic, important, and popular. when people visit MoMA in 50 years, they'll want to see a cut out chunk of wall again, I fucking hate this and think pieces should be left in situ to fade away or get painted over, but think it's an unfortunate inevitability Trying is one thing… Millions of dollars have already been spent trying to get rich folk to buy these and yet the works continue to be burned. I'm far from an expert but I'd bet my house there are far more obscure pieces that will have will far more importance to old and new collectors.The most important,iconic and popular works are yet to surface IMO |
|
