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Post by sin on Apr 28, 2015 22:49:24 GMT
For best results, listen to this while reading this thread.
We rushed in under a banner of revolution. An aggressive raw departure from the trained and traditional.
Not unlike the waxing and waning of Outsider Art, we've found ourselves in the cooling that happens when what started as a rebellion becomes the status quo.
You cant rage against a machine that you are seeking to use.
So the art became formulaic, the artists became rock stars. When they once wanted to hide behind monikers they now were seeking out PR agents.
Rehashed, reimagined regurgitated with less and less substance and more and more style.
It's a modern ill, that we find ourselves attracted to a flame only to smother it with our obsession.
Time to pull up stakes and seek out where rebellion found affordable rent, 'cause the "street" has become gentrified, the desolate warehouses with a dive bar, gave way to coffee shops, yoga studios, with parking meeter forests. The natural warmth of the flame gave way to the soul sucking hum of artificial light... casting artificial shadows... on a manufactured rebellion that is open every Saturday from noon to 11pm
.... needless to say I'm a bid disillusioned with the state of "this thing we share" and am making an effort to explore something else. feel free to critique my thoughts.
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Post by Dr. Plip on Apr 28, 2015 22:54:14 GMT
I'm curious about the new direction you would go in. Are you hoping for unique expression or truth?
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Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Apr 28, 2015 23:12:33 GMT
I'm curious about the new direction you would go in. Are you hoping for unique expression or truth? are they mutually exclusive? |
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Post by Dr. Plip on Apr 28, 2015 23:35:20 GMT
I'm curious about the new direction you would go in. Are you hoping for unique expression or truth? are they mutually exclusive? Nope. But I think these days, in the crazy zany world of art, uniqueness is kinda fetishised, as people look for something new and fresh. The next "thing". Often ignoring whether it actually means anything. Sometimes it's enough just to be the first artist to ingest pigment and crap on a canvas. I think you can have both truth and (perhaps temporary) uniqueness. But that will mean not just being unique purely for its own sake. Truth is often ugly too. So it's sometimes a harder sell. But then it's not always about money. But that does tend to be how an artist's worth is measured. At least by the majority. Just be aware that if you go and find some previously undiscovered gem, if it's any good, it will be deemed to be officially cool, and refined and repackaged for the masses. Will you still love it in the same way? Uniqueness is a rare thing in art now, as humans have been knocking out this stuff for ages. But there are still new avenues and dark alleys to explore. Depends on what you're looking for. Edit: Also be aware that I have no fucking idea what I'm talking about. It's late here and I've been on Rancor-strength hayfever medication all day. |
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Post by nimzy on Apr 28, 2015 23:56:35 GMT
For best results, listen to this while reading this thread. We rushed in under a banner of revolution. An aggressive raw departure from the trained and traditional. Not unlike the waxing and waning of Outsider Art, we've found ourselves in the cooling that happens when what started as a rebellion becomes the status quo. You cant rage against a machine that you are seeking to use. So the art became formulaic, the artists became rock stars. When they once wanted to hide behind monikers they now were seeking out PR agents. Rehashed, reimagined regurgitated with less and less substance and more and more style. It's a modern ill, that we find ourselves attracted to a flame only to smother it with our obsession. Time to pull up stakes and seek out where rebellion found affordable rent, 'cause the "street" has become gentrified, the desolate warehouses with a dive bar, gave way to coffee shops, yoga studios, with parking meeter forests. The natural warmth of the flame gave way to the soul sucking hum of artificial light... casting artificial shadows... on a manufactured rebellion that is open every Saturday from noon to 11pm .... needless to say I'm a bid disillusioned with the state of "this thing we share" and am making an effort to explore something else. feel free to critique my thoughts. This is the stuff that makes me feel like I need to move to a Detroit or somewhere that is a shit hole attempted to be reshaped. I sit in Las Vegas and all I hear about is old Vegas an how great it used to be, I go on these art forums and often wish I could have been part of the upcoming groups of the 90s and early 00's. I think that its something every generation reflects on, that belief that most everything that is great has come and now its just mainstream crap, kinda like the 80s. |
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Post by Dr. Plip on Apr 29, 2015 0:06:25 GMT
Hey Fed? You still there? Are we having a conversation still? You gone? It's like 1:00am here. Should I go to bed? You coming back? Maybe you've just gone to walk the dogs or something. I mean, if you're back in 10 minutes, that's ok. But what if you don't reply for another 8 hours or more? Fed? ..................Fed?
Edit: I'll phone you.
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Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Apr 29, 2015 0:21:13 GMT
hahaha sorry was printing. Back now. I'll read your response and reply. Just give me a few to clean up
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Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Apr 29, 2015 1:04:53 GMT
are they mutually exclusive? Nope. But I think these days, in the crazy zany world of art, uniqueness is kinda fetishised, as people look for something new and fresh. The next "thing". Often ignoring whether it actually means anything. Sometimes it's enough just to be the first artist to ingest pigment and crap on a canvas. I think you can have both truth and (perhaps temporary) uniqueness. But that will mean not just being unique purely for its own sake. Truth is often ugly too. So it's sometimes a harder sell. But then it's not always about money. But that does tend to be how an artist's worth is measured. At least by the majority. Just be aware that if you go and find some previously undiscovered gem, if it's any good, it will be deemed to be officially cool, and refined and repackaged for the masses. Will you still love it in the same way? Uniqueness is a rare thing in art now, as humans have been knocking out this stuff for ages. But there are still new avenues and dark alleys to explore. Depends on what you're looking for. Edit: Also be aware that I have no fucking idea what I'm talking about. It's late here and I've been on Rancor-strength hayfever medication all day. I completely get what you said. i think. I think there are (in basic, most over-simplified categories), two types of art: art that tries to make you think, and art that is for aesthetic purposes. I think there is great art for both, as well as crap for both. And then there is work that kinda sits between the two, obviously. there has always been artists who are doing it because they NEED to create. art just explodes out of them. I think this type of artist is fading. their passion is constantly being tested by... you guessed it.... mass consumption and with it, money when there's money to be made, and money to be spent, people are corrupted. both artist, collector, and the people in between. artists who make work that can be sold to the masses are championed and sadly, often diluted. as an example... take an artist - imagine one of many artists talked about on here.... they LOVE making art. they're exploring themselves. they try new things. they don't care about what anyone thinks. but then... they make something that tons of people seem to like. they get people telling them they should sell that. and why shouldn't they? they need to make a living. and they do. and it sells well. so there's pressure to make more work that's similar to what has sold well. suddenly their need to experiment dissolves. we're constantly being marketed to. we want to like stuff. we want to buy stuff. we often like stuff that our friends like, or stuff we think we should like. we want to "belong". the polar ends of the spectrum get chopped off - the most edgy, and the most banal art fades away, and we're left with something that's watered down to consume in mass. sometimes that stuff in the middle ends up being great, but a lot of it is just white noise. a lot of filler. the first to do something will be remembered, but most of the derivative work will be forgotten. the need to be unique fades away. instead there's a need to follow something proven that has come before it; something known to be successful. too often - there's no longer a creative peak.. there's a first, and there's the "best" which has come to mean most successful. what happened to genius? so for me - I TRY to stay out of this cycle. I try not to buy in, but it doesn't always work. it takes EFFORT to find something truly unique. sometimes, too much effort. it's easier to find something easy. finding something new, something unexplored, something exciting, is like swimming upstream. getting there is the most rewarding, but sometimes the fun also lies in the journey. it's hard to make yourself want to be challenged. but we should all be doing it, as hard as it seems sometimes. we shouldn't accept anything easy, as rewarding (I'm not talking financially) as it is in the short-term I don't know if what I wrote makes any sense - sometimes what I'm thinking doesn't always translate to my fingers. so in short - uniqueness is fading and giving way to the celebration of mass mediocracy. everything is one big "like" button. I don't like that. but at the same time, sometimes we take this all too seriously  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 1:17:14 GMT
Stop buying pretty pictures and start creating them.
Buck the trends, do your own thing. Make friends with a similar stance and start a movement.
Save your money. You can support artists without having to buy things from them. Giving feels better than receiving.
This formula has made a difference in the way I appreciate art.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 1:32:15 GMT
For best results, listen to this while reading this thread. We rushed in under a banner of revolution. An aggressive raw departure from the trained and traditional. Not unlike the waxing and waning of Outsider Art, we've found ourselves in the cooling that happens when what started as a rebellion becomes the status quo. You cant rage against a machine that you are seeking to use. So the art became formulaic, the artists became rock stars. When they once wanted to hide behind monikers they now were seeking out PR agents. Rehashed, reimagined regurgitated with less and less substance and more and more style. It's a modern ill, that we find ourselves attracted to a flame only to smother it with our obsession. Time to pull up stakes and seek out where rebellion found affordable rent, 'cause the "street" has become gentrified, the desolate warehouses with a dive bar, gave way to coffee shops, yoga studios, with parking meeter forests. The natural warmth of the flame gave way to the soul sucking hum of artificial light... casting artificial shadows... on a manufactured rebellion that is open every Saturday from noon to 11pm .... needless to say I'm a bid disillusioned with the state of "this thing we share" and am making an effort to explore something else. feel free to critique my thoughts. Love you Sin, though I tend to disagree with much of what you say here. If it's rebellion you seek, you are in the right place. I'm reading you. I'm using the machine which I've raged against. I've discovered that my interest in art and meager art collection can be liquidated into something great that helps people. Whether it is donating to charities which help people live or buying precious bits of paper for my own collage, or ceramic material for my public work. The net result is that my art, and work of other artists I somehow ended up owning, have the ability to create change, even if it's just a smile. The machine is a beautiful one, that can have unattractive bits too. In my opinion, it's best to focus on the beauty and just accept the ugliness.
I really love this place. Great stuff to be read everyday.
Oh, and fuck UAA. 
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 2:42:35 GMT
Accepting the ugliness is one of the reasons why we're fucked.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 3:49:38 GMT
Accepting the ugliness is one of the reasons why we're fucked. Nah. I'm with Jeff Koons:
"For me, art really starts with acceptance, self trust. Wherever you come to with art, it's perfect. You don't have to come with anything. What you bring to something is the art. That's where it's found. It's found within you."
I'm also a big fan of Eckhart Tolle:
"Acceptance looks like a passive state, but in reality it brings something entirely new into this world. That peace, a subtle energy vibration, is consciousness."
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 6:05:27 GMT
Accepting the ugliness is one of the reasons why we're fucked. Nah. I'm with Jeff Koons:
"For me, art really starts with acceptance, self trust. Wherever you come to with art, it's perfect. You don't have to come with anything. What you bring to something is the art. That's where it's found. It's found within you."
I'm also a big fan of Eckhart Tolle:
"Acceptance looks like a passive state, but in reality it brings something entirely new into this world. That peace, a subtle energy vibration, is consciousness."
Tolles acceptance is about consciousness, about clarity of mind so when you make decisions and judgements its done with clarity, without ego and not muddled with the flow of shit that fills the mind of modern man, its not so much about just accepting everything thats put before us. Eggplant accepts everything because it has no choice |
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Post by Dr. Plip on Apr 29, 2015 6:44:09 GMT
Nope. But I think these days, in the crazy zany world of art, uniqueness is kinda fetishised, as people look for something new and fresh. The next "thing". Often ignoring whether it actually means anything. Sometimes it's enough just to be the first artist to ingest pigment and crap on a canvas. I think you can have both truth and (perhaps temporary) uniqueness. But that will mean not just being unique purely for its own sake. Truth is often ugly too. So it's sometimes a harder sell. But then it's not always about money. But that does tend to be how an artist's worth is measured. At least by the majority. Just be aware that if you go and find some previously undiscovered gem, if it's any good, it will be deemed to be officially cool, and refined and repackaged for the masses. Will you still love it in the same way? Uniqueness is a rare thing in art now, as humans have been knocking out this stuff for ages. But there are still new avenues and dark alleys to explore. Depends on what you're looking for. Edit: Also be aware that I have no fucking idea what I'm talking about. It's late here and I've been on Rancor-strength hayfever medication all day. I completely get what you said. i think. I think there are (in basic, most over-simplified categories), two types of art: art that tries to make you think, and art that is for aesthetic purposes. I think there is great art for both, as well as crap for both. And then there is work that kinda sits between the two, obviously. there has always been artists who are doing it because they NEED to create. art just explodes out of them. I think this type of artist is fading. their passion is constantly being tested by... you guessed it.... mass consumption and with it, money when there's money to be made, and money to be spent, people are corrupted. both artist, collector, and the people in between. artists who make work that can be sold to the masses are championed and sadly, often diluted. as an example... take an artist - imagine one of many artists talked about on here.... they LOVE making art. they're exploring themselves. they try new things. they don't care about what anyone thinks. but then... they make something that tons of people seem to like. they get people telling them they should sell that. and why shouldn't they? they need to make a living. and they do. and it sells well. so there's pressure to make more work that's similar to what has sold well. suddenly their need to experiment dissolves. we're constantly being marketed to. we want to like stuff. we want to buy stuff. we often like stuff that our friends like, or stuff we think we should like. we want to "belong". the polar ends of the spectrum get chopped off - the most edgy, and the most banal art fades away, and we're left with something that's watered down to consume in mass. sometimes that stuff in the middle ends up being great, but a lot of it is just white noise. a lot of filler. the first to do something will be remembered, but most of the derivative work will be forgotten. the need to be unique fades away. instead there's a need to follow something proven that has come before it; something known to be successful. too often - there's no longer a creative peak.. there's a first, and there's the "best" which has come to mean most successful. what happened to genius? so for me - I TRY to stay out of this cycle. I try not to buy in, but it doesn't always work. it takes EFFORT to find something truly unique. sometimes, too much effort. it's easier to find something easy. finding something new, something unexplored, something exciting, is like swimming upstream. getting there is the most rewarding, but sometimes the fun also lies in the journey. it's hard to make yourself want to be challenged. but we should all be doing it, as hard as it seems sometimes. we shouldn't accept anything easy, as rewarding (I'm not talking financially) as it is in the short-term I don't know if what I wrote makes any sense - sometimes what I'm thinking doesn't always translate to my fingers. so in short - uniqueness is fading and giving way to the celebration of mass mediocracy. everything is one big "like" button. I don't like that. but at the same time, sometimes we take this all too seriously Yes |
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Post by Dr. Plip on Apr 29, 2015 6:57:36 GMT
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Post by Dr. Plip on Apr 29, 2015 7:08:34 GMT
Are art forums cool? We're cool, right?
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Post by lonelyfarmer on Apr 29, 2015 8:24:58 GMT
Little Lambs fed on bottles are cool, Onken yoghurts not too shonky also.
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Post by holden on Apr 29, 2015 8:57:42 GMT
just watched whip lash, great movie
sometimes a symbol produces genius
sometimes a symbol 'does' need to decapitate
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Post by mikeydread on Apr 29, 2015 10:42:23 GMT
I'm glad somebody noticed. I tear my hair out everytime that comes on the box. |
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Post by feralthings on Apr 29, 2015 16:16:40 GMT
I’m not going to disagree that there’s a lot of work out there that I find generic, formulaic and uninspiring and to a certain extent it does dilute the scene as a whole but I don’t think that takes anything away from the individual artists who are creating interesting pieces. Artists like Blu, Escif and Banksy are producing socially relevant and engaging work and artists like Dale Marshall, Lucas Price and the DMV crew are producing thought provoking and beautiful work. It’s just a case of wading through the rough to find the diamonds.
In terms of artists that are literally stepping out of their safety zone, I really like Taps and Moses’ abstract expressionist pieces on trains. Utah and Ether have been attaching geometric panels to the side of trains before painting a wholecar and the magnetic panel then becomes an abstract piece of work when removed. Also, graffiti has been an integral part of the Egyptian revolution and is has helped to document events over the last few years and to be a positive force for change.
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