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Post by samfrost on Apr 23, 2015 18:18:24 GMT
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Post by dungle on Apr 23, 2015 18:49:37 GMT
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Post by feralthings on Apr 23, 2015 18:51:41 GMT
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Post by dungle on Apr 23, 2015 18:57:48 GMT
“I wonder whether this change in attitude is genuine, or whether it is a dot.com moment where people feel they are missing out if they don’t invest?”
Sums the majority of the market up perfectly.
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Post by dazarino on Apr 23, 2015 19:09:10 GMT
Madness,I suppose gp are a good example of the online consumer market.new collectors just buy everything in sight for fear of missing out.God I remember those days
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 19:20:23 GMT
investment is regarded as a dirty word on here but in the contemp market or let's say the real world it's not a dirty but a rather sensible word. So people will say I bought this piece from this artist who is on the way up spent 10k and I think it's stunning and a good investment etc. it doesn't necessarily down grade their main reason for buying
Most people don't spend between 5k and say 25k and not worry about a pieces future value regardless of what they say on here.
If you read it says 93% say they mainly buy for passion which I think in the art world in general is true but value is always a consideration when buying a piece and when you buy you do invest your money and many buy art from people/artists on the way up as opposed to artists on the way downso zi would say in general that it's pretty accurate and true particularly when you would assume the people who responded to not regard the word investment as dirty but probably regardless of the rights and wrongs regard the word as quite aspirational
The general and contemp market has a much different view that way than say the street, urban, Graff market IMO
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Post by notmattl on Apr 23, 2015 20:39:05 GMT
All these people coining themselves as "investors" is just so laughable, and goes to show how gullible and ignorant most people are.
For starters, a large number of "investors" in a niche and volatile market, is just nonsensical. Very much like the online poker fad, so many people were conned into joining the game, feeling so good about that 1 time where they scored AA pre-flop and made an instant 60 quid. If they were keeping track of their winnings (not counting time spent) they would quickly see they were just being robbed. The only winners are the casinos (read galleries) and the big fish who need chumps to rob (a handful of able flippers)
The most common picture that comes to mind about these savvy investors is that guy who can tell you how he sold his 4 Stik showcards for 200quid, and he got them free mate !!! Good for you buddy, you made 200 pounds in 2 years. Now how about that portfolio of 250 pound hand finished prints sitting under your wall, that no one wants. Keep em under the bed like loot, until you figure out they are worth nothing…
And even if you win every time, flip every print you buy for a few 100 quid over 12-24 months, you made what out of all this ? 1k ? 5k ? You would need a minimum of 50k cash to start to make this really worth your while. If you are playing with a bit of spare change and saying this is your investment, please let me quote the great american philosopher Nelson Muntz "Ha Ha".
Unless you are a well oiled gallery, or a very savvy collector and businessman with deep pockets and a resilient diversified portfolio of assets, you are just getting conned.
So all these investors should get wise : you are buying expensive posters in a business driven market. You are not an investor. End of story.
I feel so good to say : I am not an investor. I work my ass off to buy shit I can afford and enjoy, and some of that happens to be expensive posters, which I enjoy discussing on forums
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Post by amberhalo on Apr 23, 2015 20:52:09 GMT
I think johnnyh and notmattl raise some good points, and I find myself agreeing with aspects of both. Ultimately, you should be buying what you want to hang on your walls and what resonates with you.
But when art gets to a certain price point (and for everyone that # is different), I think many of us would want that piece to at least hold its value -- so, like johnnyh says, many of us would be more inclined to spend on artists we perceive on the way up as opposed to artists on the way down.
I find the quote dungle highlighted from the article (“I wonder whether this change in attitude is genuine, or whether it is a dot.com moment where people feel they are missing out if they don’t invest?”) most troublesome. Chasing "investments" because of greed or a fear of missing out is almost never wise.
edit: And with that post I am no longer a junior member, fuck yeah! haha. I can also sell work here, too, though I have been buying art for 10 years and never sold squat... so. |
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Post by alittle on Apr 23, 2015 20:56:36 GMT
I just buy pretty things.
Much of it will probably be worth nothing.
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Post by dungle on Apr 23, 2015 21:00:04 GMT
There's nothing wrong with buying art for investment. Clearly as Johnny says why the fuck would you buy something for 10k if you didn't at least expect it to hold value.
The troubling part is that people all remember Banksy and the prints they didn't buy that were a few hundred quid of less and are now worth thousands. They spend a fortune chasing the next big thing and buying up all in sight in the hope that they will see these huge increases with little thought about the actual image.
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Post by notmattl on Apr 23, 2015 21:07:36 GMT
I just buy pretty things. Much of it will probably be worth nothing. And that is the purest of all luxuries. Buying art to look at it, wine to drink it, cigars to smoke them, old cars to drive them.....this means being able to say, if someday that is worth nothing, I could not fucking care less, and that is how you do nothing but enjoy the silly things you bought. If my house burns down, I don't care about the value of destroyed art. My problem is that even with the insurance money there are some pieces that I will never be able to buy again. |
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Post by dan993c2 on Apr 23, 2015 21:25:31 GMT
Art is art full stop. Yes sometimes you make money sometimes you don't. I learnt pretty quickly that speculating in art was a risky game. Buy with your heart and that way if it worth nowt after many years who cares, it will still give you the same buzz you had when you received that tube. I liken it to my first pill  |
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Post by jeezuzjonessnr on Apr 23, 2015 21:44:38 GMT
We are little people in the grand scheme of things (collectors).
I remember walking around HK art fair and was blown away by the rich there spending millions and all had a little paid expert with them given advice. They will want to see a return on their investment. Like shares,property,gold,silver etc.. The majority of art is bought as an investment.
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Post by nimzy on Apr 23, 2015 22:04:57 GMT
Of course then its followed up with articles such as these. Art and real estate are the new gold, says Blackrock CEO www.cnbc.com/id/102605628Well if the billionaires are doing it it has to be a good investment |
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Post by notmattl on Apr 23, 2015 22:14:59 GMT
Of course then its followed up with articles such as these. Art and real estate are the new gold, says Blackrock CEO www.cnbc.com/id/102605628Well if the billionaires are doing it it has to be a good investment Case in point. Once you have bought everything in sight, clue in everybody on "the great investment"...sit back and light up |
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Post by nimzy on Apr 24, 2015 3:09:31 GMT
Exactly most investors I know say when your grandmother (no offense grandma) states she heard something is a good investment, its time to dump and look for something new.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 3:27:03 GMT
We are little people in the grand scheme of things (collectors). I remember walking around HK art fair and was blown away by the rich there spending millions and all had a little paid expert with them given advice. They will want to see a return on their investment. Like shares,property,gold,silver etc.. The majority of art is bought as an investment. Yep quite right there. The publication who released this also the large contemp fair and auction market is their readership. So it is the in general the wealthy person with spare money who is their readership etc so it is that market which is why the results are what they are. |
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Post by iamzero on Apr 24, 2015 6:07:55 GMT
The good thing about me collecting pretty pictures for the wall is my missus gets it too. Now my vinyl record collection she thinks is pointless. It has potentially made me much more money as I had/ still have a terrible habit of buying more than one copy of each release, putting it into plastic sleeves that go into metal boxes there they stay for a while. Every few months I go through them when adding new stuff but that I find really enjoyable, opening up a box of vinyl that has pristine items in it that can be over 20 years old means that I have preserved a quite disposable item.
Collecting fancy printed bits of paper is a very similar thing except those pvc sleeves are expensive frames that get hung on the wall to be out on display. Collecting is an odd hobby.
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Post by nick on Apr 24, 2015 13:12:55 GMT
probably explains the sudden love in for JJ adams on here and UAA, his work is beyond awful but price movements attract a fair few
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