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Post by chainsaw on Dec 14, 2017 18:47:40 GMT
its priced right....
not much room for flippers, but as an investment as only 26 should be good.
but i couldn't get anywhere near.
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Post by thisisanton on Dec 14, 2017 19:14:47 GMT
If spending £40,000 doesn't affect your lifestyle then go for it.
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Post by dot on Dec 14, 2017 19:32:45 GMT
interesting concept.
i never got the invite to the dangling, so in effect count myself lucky.
to those who had another kind of luck - good luck with "that one!"
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Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Dec 14, 2017 20:13:50 GMT
So as some may have seen over on the other board, emails have gone out about the grappling hook from the Walled Off. I was lucky enough to get an email for the hook which is listed as: Banksy 'Grappling Hook' Wooden cross finished with woodstain and shellac, painted aluminium hooks and bolts, painted polyurethane Jesus, synthetic hemp rope, steel bracket and pin, instruction sheet, stainless steel screws. signed and numbered by artist From an edition of 26 Executed in 2017 H:60cm x W:42cm x D:24cm deep - plus rope £40,000 + VAT (if applicable) That last number is obviously pretty punchy! I've been fortunate enough to buy some Banksy pieces early on that have appreciated well but never spent much above 10/15k on a piece. I love the grappling hook as a conceptual piece, think it would dominate a room, but with something priced that high I was curious to hear your opinions on it. I know Watchtowers haven't done as well in auctions but not sure it's that apt a comparison as they were much smaller and collaborations (i think). What do you guys think? personally, I think there are a ton of things I'd rather spend that much money on (assuming I had it).... it's basically just a grappling hook with blades on it, which subjectively has minimal connection to the artist. it might look cool in a room, but why not make one? I'm sure you could make a nice one for a fraction of the cost. there's nothing about it to me that screams Banksy, and in 20 years time, I don't think there will be many people fondly remembering that time banksy sold a grappling hook that being said, if you can afford it and would enjoy it, then go for it. it's your money and you can't take it with you when you go
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Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Dec 14, 2017 20:24:29 GMT
adding another thought.... obviously these were produced by a factory or skilled craftsman somewhere, not made by hand by Banksy. so basically he's selling a signed tchotchka for 40k.... the idea of this coming from a former (?) anarchist/free festival goer/carnie/nomad/anti-capitalist etc makes me squirm
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Post by treweman on Dec 14, 2017 22:34:56 GMT
Hey Fed. I have a very different take on this, at least the art, than you do. 1. I think the artistic value is much stronger than the prints she/he/they have produced. Banksy images are powerful on walls -- true street art -- but not great art (IMHO) reproduced on paper and hung in a frame. And people pay thousands of dollars for unsigned copies presumably never touched by the artist. I am actually much more impressed with BOTI, Dismaland, and Walled Off, and the grappling hook crucifix seems much more in keeping with these events than any image on paper. And these are signed, numbered, and from source. 2. As for the price, that is a completely different issue. If I were quite wealthy, this would be a no brainer buy for me. But everyone is in a unique situation with regard to money. For me, $40K is all of my art budget for two or three years (maybe longer), and as much as I like this, I wouldn't want to sacrifice the art that I might have bought if I hadn't used the funds for the crucifix.
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Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Dec 15, 2017 2:07:25 GMT
Hey Fed. I have a very different take on this, at least the art, than you do. 1. I think the artistic value is much stronger than the prints she/he/they have produced. Banksy images are powerful on walls -- true street art -- but not great art (IMHO) reproduced on paper and hung in a frame. And people pay thousands of dollars for unsigned copies presumably never touched by the artist. I am actually much more impressed with BOTI, Dismaland, and Walled Off, and the grappling hook crucifix seems much more in keeping with these events than any image on paper. And these are signed, numbered, and from source. 2. As for the price, that is a completely different issue. If I were quite wealthy, this would be a no brainer buy for me. But everyone is in a unique situation with regard to money. For me, $40K is all of my art budget for two or three years (maybe longer), and as much as I like this, I wouldn't want to sacrifice the art that I might have bought if I hadn't used the funds for the crucifix. i definitely partially agree - some of his prints feel completely flat and lifeless to me, especially certain ones out of context from how they originally appeared, but to me when I think Banksy I don't think "grappling hook" - I think a roughly spray painted modern day version of a political cartoon. for me, the hook is just a bland object; even a gaudy status symbol - it gives me no pleasure aesthetically or emotionally but again, I don't expect everyone to have the same opinions as me and if someone enjoys it and can afford it, then i say god bless
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Post by Still Hate Thatcher on Dec 15, 2017 7:43:12 GMT
It makes no sense to me. What's a crucifix got to do with it other than being a convenient shape?
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Post by illu on Dec 15, 2017 10:46:27 GMT
I just been to the walled off and saw the cruzihook in persona.....if I had the cash it would be a no brainer....it Looks fantastic, I also liked the shadowplay of it on the wall and think there are some pretty cool ways to display it. Of course you can argue about the meaning, intention, etc.......but you could have These arguments about nearly every Piece of art couldn't you
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Post by dot on Dec 15, 2017 12:11:42 GMT
at least for me the choice in this case .. of a "crucial fix" is one I'd not have in my humble abode in any form.
without some irony - there is no crucial fix for what is going on out there.
..mind you the "grapple 'fix" might get you over a wall... and into ....
near vah-na ! the great escape - is Bshanksy Steve McQueen ?
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Post by treweman on Dec 15, 2017 16:07:08 GMT
Hey Fed. I have a very different take on this, at least the art, than you do. 1. I think the artistic value is much stronger than the prints she/he/they have produced. Banksy images are powerful on walls -- true street art -- but not great art (IMHO) reproduced on paper and hung in a frame. And people pay thousands of dollars for unsigned copies presumably never touched by the artist. I am actually much more impressed with BOTI, Dismaland, and Walled Off, and the grappling hook crucifix seems much more in keeping with these events than any image on paper. And these are signed, numbered, and from source. 2. As for the price, that is a completely different issue. If I were quite wealthy, this would be a no brainer buy for me. But everyone is in a unique situation with regard to money. For me, $40K is all of my art budget for two or three years (maybe longer), and as much as I like this, I wouldn't want to sacrifice the art that I might have bought if I hadn't used the funds for the crucifix. i definitely partially agree - some of his prints feel completely flat and lifeless to me, especially certain ones out of context from how they originally appeared, but to me when I think Banksy I don't think "grappling hook" - I think a roughly spray painted modern day version of a political cartoon. for me, the hook is just a bland object; even a gaudy status symbol - it gives me no pleasure aesthetically or emotionally but again, I don't expect everyone to have the same opinions as me and if someone enjoys it and can afford it, then i say god bless At the price being asked, it does seem a status symbol (I purposely left out the word gaudy). When I think about Banksy, I think about a very political artist who used roughly sprayed images to convey his ideas. Often illegal and timely - thus the need for speed and the reason for crudely produced stenciling. I also think about an artist who understands that for art that is political to matter it has to be of the people for the people. But while the painted images might be humorous, eye catching, and cartoon-like, they are not immersive. Thus the move to large scale, multifaceted, participatory art that forces us out of our homes and hometowns where we are comfortable. An attempt to make each of us a part of his art. I greatly admire and respect this. For me, the Walled Off Hotel is brilliant. And then there is the dark side of the Banksy revolution. The mad scramble for prints, the greed and the insane amounts of money which are so contrary to the whole notion of street art. It is no long for the people but for the few and the wealthy. Sadly, at the price being asked for the grappling hook crucifix, it is a part of the dark side from the outset. I had read somewhere that all of the money from the sale of these is to be donated back to Palestinian relief efforts (can anyone confirm this?), so there is that, but I still think the price itself ruins the art for me. As for those who have trouble seeing any symbolism or meaning behind the image (it is, after all, like a 3D version of an image he could have produced on paper or canvas), I’m rather surprised. Why is this more difficult to understand than Toxic Mary, Christ Shopping, or Napalm? I hate to repeat things in threads, but given the size, the political situation (made worse in recent days by Trump), and the power of the art, I would love to hang this over my front door in the entry. But the price is very much a turn off. In truth, I don’t own any Banksy art. Paying tens of thousands of dollars bastardizes the very art being bought. Just my opinion.
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Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Dec 15, 2017 16:32:13 GMT
As for those who have trouble seeing any symbolism or meaning behind the image (it is, after all, like a 3D version of an image he could have produced on paper or canvas), I’m rather surprised. Why is this more difficult to understand than Toxic Mary, Christ Shopping, or Napalm? I hate to repeat things in threads, but given the size, the political situation (made worse in recent days by Trump), and the power of the art, I would love to hang this over my front door in the entry. But the price is very much a turn off. In truth, I don’t own any Banksy art. Paying tens of thousands of dollars bastardizes the very art being bought. Just my opinion. i get the symbolism (he's never one to be discreet). it could have been more guard tower statues, or a ladder for that matter. but a grappling hook, compared to say, the naivety/innocence of a little girl with balloons hoping to float over to the other side - (probably out of all his work, the piece that I feel the most emotionally connected to) - just feels shallow to me, especially, like you said, at that price
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Post by lee3 on Dec 15, 2017 17:28:01 GMT
>>>And then there is the dark side of the Banksy revolution. The mad scramble for prints, the greed and the insane amounts of money which are so contrary to the whole notion of street art. It is no long for the people but for the few and the wealthy. Sadly, at the price being asked for the grappling hook crucifix, it is a part of the dark side from the outset. <<<
This is what happens when an artist reaches the no good deed paradigm; he's criticized no matter anymore. It was less than 2 months ago that some 500 prints were released for a tiny fraction of their true value which is extremely generous by any definition. He took in far less money then he could have and most likely added significantly to the back end workload for pest control dealing with COA's for any and all with that release. He could have raised the better part of 10 million sterling (at 20k each) but chose to give away 98% of that sum instead. Most would do no such thing. That is the very definition of "for the people" from my vantage point. Yes, some were allocated to long time supporters but it's obvious that many were allocated on pure luck. And then after giving away that kind of money he's criticized for behaving as an artist with like achievement. I'm jaded and biased but I don't see the cash grab that others do, on the contrary in fact.
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Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Dec 15, 2017 18:28:06 GMT
What if the 1.2 million raised by the grappling hook paid for the BBC doc or goes to Palestine? I think you could make an argument that this is the best way for an artist to work. He just released a print (Sale Ends) for the people, and now he's hitting up people (again through a lottery, no VIP list) to buy this. I'm sure many have passed. But I'm guessing, much like with the girl with balloons sold before Dismaland, that by selling these larger value items he's investing it into his next public art experience. I've got nothing against him selling these - if it's for charity even better (though you could argue there's plenty of other of ways he could raise money), I just don't get who the audience for these is. If i were to invest that amount of money in an artist's work, I'd want it to be something that screams that artist's name.... this one just doesn't scream Banksy to me. it would almost be like if Warhol sold a limited edition, I don't know, NYC taxi toy. yes, it could be cool looking, but it would only be something tangentially related to what he's known for. wouldn't you rather have a Warhol print or drawing for that price?
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Post by IggyWiggy on Dec 15, 2017 21:00:55 GMT
Comparing Banksy 'then' with Banksy 'now' is like comparing apples with oranges.
I don't see 'only' raising a quarter of a million pounds from the 'Sale Ends' release as particularly meritorious.
This piece prices out the flippers - whoopee shit.
If the asking price separates bankers from a fraction of their bonuses and goes towards something good, excellent.
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Post by milo99 on Dec 16, 2017 10:51:48 GMT
Hey Fed. I have a very different take on this, at least the art, than you do. 1. I think the artistic value is much stronger than the prints she/he/they have produced. Banksy images are powerful on walls -- true street art -- but not great art (IMHO) reproduced on paper and hung in a frame. And people pay thousands of dollars for unsigned copies presumably never touched by the artist. I am actually much more impressed with BOTI, Dismaland, and Walled Off, and the grappling hook crucifix seems much more in keeping with these events than any image on paper. And these are signed, numbered, and from source. 2. As for the price, that is a completely different issue. If I were quite wealthy, this would be a no brainer buy for me. But everyone is in a unique situation with regard to money. For me, $40K is all of my art budget for two or three years (maybe longer), and as much as I like this, I wouldn't want to sacrifice the art that I might have bought if I hadn't used the funds for the crucifix. £48,000 with the vat, over 60000 dollars
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Post by treweman on Dec 16, 2017 15:39:13 GMT
Good God! I sounded like Trump, didn’t I.
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Post by johnnyh on Dec 17, 2017 0:15:21 GMT
He is using this piece and has priced it to guarantee the Walled Off to next November.
Great piece and great move by him. There are 50 staff at the hotel and he is sorting it.
Mega stuff
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Post by treweman on Dec 17, 2017 16:06:16 GMT
He is using this piece and has priced it to guarantee the Walled Off to next November. Great piece and great move by him. There are 50 staff at the hotel and he is sorting it. Mega stuff Makes the price understandable. Banksy definitely has his priorities straight.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2017 9:48:39 GMT
To answer your question, please answer these questions:
Do you like the sculpture? Does spending 40 K effect your lifestyle much? You want to make a difference and let the hotel stay open? Will you make the purchase as an investment only?
If your answers are Yes,No,Yes,No then buy. In any other case walk away. and smile.
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Post by dodcoquelicot on Dec 18, 2017 15:06:20 GMT
To answer your question, please answer these questions: Do you like the sculpture? Does spending 40 K effect your lifestyle much? You want to make a difference and let the hotel stay open? Will you make the purchase as an investment only? If your answers are Yes,No,Yes,No then buy. In any other case walk away. and smile. ahah funny mate ! For me, since the beginning, it makes me think to Mason Storm sculptures, He loves Crucifix with derivations...
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Post by broke on Dec 19, 2017 16:20:08 GMT
Thanks everyone for your opinions. I ended up purchasing it as they worked with me on a payment plan which made it a lot more palatable. Can't wait to get it! Congrats mate! Any plans on how you might display it?
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Post by L'il Bird on Dec 19, 2017 20:53:30 GMT
What else was he going to do ? an edition of 26 signed fourty foot fucking ladders ?
as the Grappling hook or ladder are the only way over the wall
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Post by chainsaw on Dec 19, 2017 21:08:20 GMT
ltd edition bundle of fake dynamite? made from....sherbet fountains?
ltd edition vinyl roll out door to stick on any wall.. branded "acme universal door"
any other ideas?
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Post by johnnyh on Dec 28, 2017 9:06:15 GMT
eschiff congrats on the purchase the one they have in the hotel looks terrific. It’s big as well really chunky piece.
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