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Post by IggyWiggy on Jun 24, 2015 21:40:08 GMT
http://instagram.com/p/4UmSz1ieAu Saw the above post and @ninthson 's avatar. Heard a mention of the Confederate flag on the radio earlier too. Anyone have any comments? Were the Dukes of Hazzard evil? Should the flag be banned? |
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Post by poledance on Jun 24, 2015 21:49:48 GMT
http://instagr.am/p/4UmSz1ieAu Saw the above post and @ninthson 's avatar. Heard a mention of the Confederate flag on the radio earlier too. Anyone have any comments? Were the Dukes of Hazzard evil? Should the flag be banned? Putting the Dukes of hazard joke in there does this topic a disservice. The flag is a marker of a dark point inhistory reflecting beliefs of a group that are out of time and today plainly racist so yes evil. America is bluntly fucked up, the police, healthcare to the poor, to foreign policy, to the patriot act, to financial services .... Fucked up and a beacon of consumerist society warped and fucked. |
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Post by alittle on Jun 24, 2015 21:53:03 GMT
'MURICA!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 22:01:59 GMT
hmmm. the confederate flag isnt just a symbol of racism, its more a symbol of rebellion thes days, of identity with a mythologised history.That said, it does mean different things to different people these days.'course the civil war was about slavery, but the union were not de facto anti slavers, just pro unionists.
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Post by poledance on Jun 24, 2015 22:04:10 GMT
hmmm. the confederate flag isnt just a symbol of racism, its more a symbol of rebellion thes days, of identity with a mythologised history.That said, it does mean different things to different people these days.'course the civil war was about slavery, but the union were not de facto anti slavers, just pro unionists. You know as well as me that's semantics in terms of the simplified view of history that's used by most and therefore redundant in terms of a metaphor to those oppressed. |
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Post by dreamers on Jun 24, 2015 22:11:16 GMT
Burn that flag!
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Post by IggyWiggy on Jun 24, 2015 22:12:11 GMT
http://instagr.am/p/4UmSz1ieAu Saw the above post and @ninthson 's avatar. Heard a mention of the Confederate flag on the radio earlier too. Anyone have any comments? Were the Dukes of Hazzard evil? Should the flag be banned? Putting the Dukes of hazard joke in there does this topic a disservice. The flag is a marker of a dark point inhistory reflecting beliefs of a group that are out of time and today plainly racist so yes evil. America is bluntly fucked up, the police, healthcare to the poor, to foreign policy, to the patriot act, to financial services .... Fucked up and a beacon of consumerist society warped and fucked. Thank you poledance for commenting. When the Dukes of Hazzard was on I was very young. I remember the car doing exciting jumps and people springing in through the unwound windows and that was really cool. My friend and i used to practice it on his parents' car (bet they were chuffed). I also remember handing in a little project on the USA with a carefully drawn Confederacy flag (or close to it-ish) as the title page. All this being said, it was never challenged by my parents or teachers, presumably through lack of insight into the issue, rather than deeply ingrained racist tendencies. In fact, i'm abashed to say that it was only through studying for a History degree that the truth unfolded. The South's approach to slavery is now, more so than ever, easy to document and research. It is also comfortable for us in the UK to sit in judgement, perhaps overlooking our integral and ashamed role in the slave trade. Obviously it could not continue without the UK profiting considerably. Clearly the slave trade is still existent today. We all fuel it. Apologies, i've run on a bit. Should the flag be banned? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 22:22:06 GMT
hmmm. the confederate flag isnt just a symbol of racism, its more a symbol of rebellion thes days, of identity with a mythologised history.That said, it does mean different things to different people these days.'course the civil war was about slavery, but the union were not de facto anti slavers, just pro unionists. You know as well as me that's semantics in terms of the simplified view of history that's used by most and therefore redundant in terms of a metaphor to those oppressed. and you know that bringing in emotive terms like oppressed at this stage of a discussion acts to close the flow rather than to facilitate its expansion. If we were to approach this logically, we need to consider , as a very basic framework 1) what purpose did the confederate flag serve 2) What purpose does the confederate flag serve I know what my opinion is, but lets open it up a bit for others |
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Post by poledance on Jun 24, 2015 22:27:01 GMT
The confederate flag discussion is just a tiny part of a much larger discussion about race and the underclass in western society. The American media has portrayed the latest shooting as a tragedy, it's a racist act of terror, but there won't be any questions of inequality, schooling, counselling, investment in social policy. Just crocodile tears from the elite and no change, and that's how the powerful want it, the poor attacking each other. In those terms the confederate flag discussion is just a distraction from the real malaise.
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Post by cymruplan on Jun 24, 2015 22:28:04 GMT
The Americans will make a huge issue out of getting the flag banned neatly avoiding the elephant in the room - gun control. The NRA are probably revelling in the flag debate. Waving a racist flag around in photos makes the recent murderer ignorant at best, when his dad put a gun in his hand at 21 it made it much easier for him to become a murderer.
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Post by poledance on Jun 24, 2015 22:30:04 GMT
Putting the Dukes of hazard joke in there does this topic a disservice. The flag is a marker of a dark point inhistory reflecting beliefs of a group that are out of time and today plainly racist so yes evil. America is bluntly fucked up, the police, healthcare to the poor, to foreign policy, to the patriot act, to financial services .... Fucked up and a beacon of consumerist society warped and fucked. Thank you poledance for commenting. When the Dukes of Hazzard was on I was very young. I remember the car doing exciting jumps and people springing in through the unwound windows and that was really cool. My friend and i used to practice it on his parents' car (bet they were chuffed). I also remember handing in a little project on the USA with a carefully drawn Confederacy flag (or close to it-ish) as the title page. All this being said, it was never challenged by my parents or teachers, presumably through lack of insight into the issue, rather than deeply ingrained racist tendencies. In fact, i'm abashed to say that it was only through studying for a History degree that the truth unfolded. The South's approach to slavery is now, more so than ever, easy to document and research. It is also comfortable for us in the UK to sit in judgement, perhaps overlooking our integral and ashamed role in the slave trade. Obviously it could not continue without the UK profiting considerably. Clearly the slave trade is still existent today. We all fuel it. Apologies, i've run on a bit. Should the flag be banned? The British have a huge amount to answer for around the world. |
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Post by Southbound on Jun 24, 2015 22:33:12 GMT
hmmm. the confederate flag isnt just a symbol of racism, its more a symbol of rebellion thes days, of identity with a mythologised history.That said, it does mean different things to different people these days.'course the civil war was about slavery, but the union were not de facto anti slavers, just pro unionists. You know as well as me that's semantics in terms of the simplified view of history that's used by most and therefore redundant in terms of a metaphor to those oppressed. Where are you from Poldark? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 22:37:17 GMT
he is from cornwall blates
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Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Jun 24, 2015 22:37:58 GMT
I think people (not government buildings) have the right to hoist any flag they'd like. but at the same time, if you've got a Confederate flag sticker on your bumper or hanging at your house, you're probably a horrible, racist human being.
a wise man once said "People who enjoy waving flags don't deserve to have one”
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Post by 886geary on Jun 24, 2015 22:40:55 GMT
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Post by IggyWiggy on Jun 24, 2015 22:43:28 GMT
Thank you poledance for commenting. When the Dukes of Hazzard was on I was very young. I remember the car doing exciting jumps and people springing in through the unwound windows and that was really cool. My friend and i used to practice it on his parents' car (bet they were chuffed). I also remember handing in a little project on the USA with a carefully drawn Confederacy flag (or close to it-ish) as the title page. All this being said, it was never challenged by my parents or teachers, presumably through lack of insight into the issue, rather than deeply ingrained racist tendencies. In fact, i'm abashed to say that it was only through studying for a History degree that the truth unfolded. The South's approach to slavery is now, more so than ever, easy to document and research. It is also comfortable for us in the UK to sit in judgement, perhaps overlooking our integral and ashamed role in the slave trade. Obviously it could not continue without the UK profiting considerably. Clearly the slave trade is still existent today. We all fuel it. Apologies, i've run on a bit. Should the flag be banned? The British have a huge amount to answer for around the world. Although Blackadder makes an ironic point, militarised armies versus native peoples fighting with 'sharpened fruit' says it all. How else would one imagine that 3/5's of the world's surface (according to some historians) belonged to one empire? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 22:44:52 GMT
Lynyrd Skynyrd used the flag- I dont think they were racists. This is the point of the discussion I feel - what does the flag mean in the 21st century ?
As anecdata, I have never seen a black american with a confederate flag
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Post by IggyWiggy on Jun 24, 2015 22:45:45 GMT
I think people (not government buildings) have the right to hoist any flag they'd like. but at the same time, if you've got a Confederate flag sticker on your bumper or hanging at your house, you're probably a horrible, racist human being. a wise man once said "People who enjoy waving flags don't deserve to have one” Nazi flag next door to you? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 22:45:56 GMT
apart from kanye above now
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2015 23:27:50 GMT
Check out Lil John & the Eastside Boyz. "The flag represents the South", then.... and now. Sometimes symbols evolve and change with time and people. Sometimes for the better; sometimes it just depends who's waiving it.
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Post by dreamers on Jun 24, 2015 23:41:30 GMT
You know these few African American "rappers" like Kanye and Lil John don't speak for the whole African American population in America.
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Post by poledance on Jun 24, 2015 23:48:11 GMT
You know these few African American "rappers" like Kanye and Lil John don't speak for the whole African American population in America. But obviously there's a whole other debate about the use of irony in ones persona |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2015 2:17:22 GMT
The Confederate flag flies in the southern states, it's for people there to decide its meaning and future. Not folks across America just because they feel some type of way. Only one flag speaks on behalf of all U.S. citizens, period.
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Post by jeezuzjonessnr on Jun 25, 2015 2:31:31 GMT
I loved Boss Hog, great show when I was a kid..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2015 2:47:38 GMT
For the record, I'm not defending people's malicious acts on behalf of. I do feel if African Americans in the south fly it proudly, then there's a struggle to be won over, and that's where change begins and the real direction lies. Denial never resolves the issue.
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