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Post by 886geary on Jun 25, 2015 3:07:53 GMT
The Confederate flag flies in the southern states, it's for people there to decide its meaning and future. Not folks across America just because they feel some type of way. Only one flag speaks on behalf of all U.S. citizens, period. I think that's what's happening they are deciding. I think the nation is weighing in on it as an opinion only. The local and states seem to be making this change not the rest of the country. |
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Post by nimzy on Jun 25, 2015 7:52:19 GMT
The Confederate flag flies in the southern states, it's for people there to decide its meaning and future. Not folks across America just because they feel some type of way. Only one flag speaks on behalf of all U.S. citizens, period. I think that's what's happening they are deciding. I think the nation is weighing in on it as an opinion only. The local and states seem to be making this change not the rest of the country. This is a great point, the Fed Gov knows it won't do any good to force this change, it has to come from the State's themselves. I think it would be a watershed moment in recognition at least that there was a problem. If Carolina does not lower the flag, then it just shows the work that needs to be done within, forcing it will just make the fundamentalist dig deeper and really given support to the rebel mentality associated with the flag; instead of the reality that no matter what the south deemed the Civil War to be about, abolishment of slavery is the present day association. I hate to say it takes time for the progression when its been 150 years but then again its only been 40 years since MLK. Glad to see the international crowd not piling on too hard. 'Merica is still young compared to a lot of you guys and its difficult to blame our demography but when you look that the US has a population of roughly just over 300million and the EU is at just over 500million. I think we should compare stats that way. The South is our version of eastern Europe. Not that this justifies anything. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2015 8:35:23 GMT
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Post by poledance on Jun 25, 2015 9:17:05 GMT
Fun fact since 9/11 who've killed more people in America right wing terrorists or Islamists?
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Post by Dr. Plip on Jun 25, 2015 9:54:21 GMT
Fun fact since 9/11 who've killed more people in America right wing terrorists or Islamists? Trick question. The answer is: Children with guns. Edit: No, wait. Cops. Is it cops? Edit: Neighbours? Is it neighbours? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2015 12:22:56 GMT
Fun fact since 9/11 who've killed more people in America right wing terrorists or Islamists? Trick question. The answer is: Children with guns. Edit: No, wait. Cops. Is it cops? Edit: Neighbours? Is it neighbours? Heart disease, prescription drugs and automobiles. |
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Post by 886geary on Jun 25, 2015 18:43:12 GMT
It looks as if I said this But I did not, I dont know much about how Eastern Europe is perceived in Europe, but I have heard jokes from Polish friends jesting with other Europeans. That was not my quote. I feel Eastern Europe has been bringing up some of my favorite artists recently and if anything else appreciate it for that. |
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Post by Southbound on Jun 25, 2015 18:54:47 GMT
It looks as if I said this But I did not, I dont know much about how Eastern Europe is perceived in Europe, but I have heard jokes from Polish friends jesting with other Europeans. That was not my quote. I feel Eastern Europe has been bringing up some of my favorite artists recently and if anything else appreciate it for that. Yeah that was my fault, trying to edit down a quote on an iPhone is awful. I just tried to edit it, but it only jacked it up more so I just deleted it. |
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Post by Southbound on Jun 25, 2015 18:59:41 GMT
The South is our version of eastern Europe. Please elaborate |
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Post by nimzy on Jun 25, 2015 19:34:52 GMT
Now imo those I talk to in the US view Eastern Europe as being the backwoods, many stuck in old world ways and not advanced much like our south, and I made a miss step as many of the eastern block states are not part of the EU. These are the countries were the US is mostly likely to hear about genocides or mass killings (within Europe). I am talking Deep South too Mississippi Lousiana Alabama.
Again these are generalizations. I for one would love to travel to some Eastern European countries.
I have thick skin so feel free to bash. I'm here to get educated as well as I think the international crowd doesn't understand a lot about the confederate flag issue.
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Post by Southbound on Jun 25, 2015 20:11:01 GMT
Now imo those I talk to in the US view Eastern Europe as being the backwoods, many stuck in old world ways and not advanced much like our south, and I made a miss step as many of the eastern block states are not part of the EU. These are the countries were the US is mostly likely to hear about genocides or mass killings (within Europe). I am talking Deep South too Mississippi Lousiana Alabama. Again these are generalizations. I for one would love to travel to some Eastern European countries. I have thick skin so feel free to bash. I'm here to get educated as well as I think the international crowd doesn't understand a lot about the confederate flag issue. Hmmm I find your (and some others on this thread) characterization of the Southern U.S. to be a little misguided and based more on stereotypes or from random crimes that make the news than from reality. There are definitely problems in the southeast (and the U.S. In general) but to characterize it as backwoods is a bit prejudicial. |
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Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Jun 25, 2015 21:29:36 GMT
Now imo those I talk to in the US view Eastern Europe as being the backwoods, many stuck in old world ways and not advanced much like our south, and I made a miss step as many of the eastern block states are not part of the EU. These are the countries were the US is mostly likely to hear about genocides or mass killings (within Europe). I am talking Deep South too Mississippi Lousiana Alabama. Again these are generalizations. I for one would love to travel to some Eastern European countries. I have thick skin so feel free to bash. I'm here to get educated as well as I think the international crowd doesn't understand a lot about the confederate flag issue. Hmmm I find your (and some others on this thread) characterization of the Southern U.S. to be a little misguided and based more on stereotypes or from random crimes that make the news than from reality. There are definitely problems in the southeast (and the U.S. In general) but to characterize it as backwoods is a bit prejudicial. there are parts of New York that are less progressive than some places in the deep south, and vise-versa. it's a big fuckin' country and there's pockets of miserable people everywhere, though my guess would be no more or less than any other country. just different types of miserable is all and unfortunately the racists, homophobes, sexists etc seem to shout louder than those who are more liberal. tons of liberal people here too that are horrible to be around, but for different reasons (smug and not empathetic being chief amongst them) |
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Post by Dr. Plip on Jun 25, 2015 21:39:19 GMT
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Post by nimzy on Jun 25, 2015 21:41:19 GMT
Most of my reactions are from first hand experience or friends who have recently traveled. I am not sure what part of the south you are from, I am sure there are some cities that are more modern, but at the same time as someone that grew up in the midwest and now have lived the last 6 or so years in the western U.S. there is still a distinct difference in regards to race relations. A perfect example, one of my best friends came back from a wedding in Alabama a few days ago, his amazement in the casual use of the term N*gger down there is more prevalent and not in the homie to homie way but the classic racist sense. He grew up in Washington and has again spent the last 10 years in Vegas.
My time was mostly visiting family in South Carolina and again from my experience the culture is much more accepting in casual racism to the point that I do not believe that many understand what the issue is. Fortunately my family is so southern Baptist that they are too busy trying to save people to come to Jesus, to have time to be racist.
I am sure there are areas that you may view as progressive, you may even live in one. Charleston has shown after this most recent shooting that they can come together, that was mostly due to religion and key players (victim family members) willing to be tolerant. You can say the media only portrays the negative (which I agree normally) but they did well in allowing many to show tolerance and forgiveness.
Also I do think that age plays a part in this, I am in my mid 20's I do think we are slowly progressing, while race is still an issue, I do not think people in my generation and those in my younger siblings even more so think less about racism (again they have grown up mostly in the Northern midwest). The confederate flag is just an antiquated sense of a former sense of individuality that will fade with time, removing it from sight will speed this progress up.
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Post by nimzy on Jun 25, 2015 22:03:27 GMT
Hmmm I find your (and some others on this thread) characterization of the Southern U.S. to be a little misguided and based more on stereotypes or from random crimes that make the news than from reality. There are definitely problems in the southeast (and the U.S. In general) but to characterize it as backwoods is a bit prejudicial. there are parts of New York that are less progressive than some places in the deep south, and vise-versa. it's a big fuckin' country and there's pockets of miserable people everywhere, though my guess would be no more or less than any other country. just different types of miserable is all and unfortunately the racists, homophobes, sexists etc seem to shout louder than those who are more liberal. tons of liberal people here too that are horrible to be around, but for different reasons (smug and not empathetic being chief amongst them) While this is completely true, I think most of my points are to support the argument of why the confederate flag should be lowered. The stereotype argument can only go so far before it is recognized there is truth behind it. I am not trying to say I have never encountered racist POS in my hometowns or areas, I know more than I want. |
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Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Jun 25, 2015 22:12:23 GMT
there are parts of New York that are less progressive than some places in the deep south, and vise-versa. it's a big fuckin' country and there's pockets of miserable people everywhere, though my guess would be no more or less than any other country. just different types of miserable is all and unfortunately the racists, homophobes, sexists etc seem to shout louder than those who are more liberal. tons of liberal people here too that are horrible to be around, but for different reasons (smug and not empathetic being chief amongst them) While this is completely true, I think most of my points are to support the argument of why the confederate flag should be lowered. The stereotype argument can only go so far before it is recognized there is truth behind it. I am not trying to say I have never encountered racist POS in my hometowns or areas, I know more than I want. don't get me wrong - I agree that the flag is disgusting and should not be up. just trying to give a little more background for those outside the US who might think that racism mostly exists in the south. as for Eastern Europe, I've never been so can't comment on it. I'd love to visit one day, especially Russia, where my mom's family came from |
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Post by Southbound on Jun 26, 2015 0:42:52 GMT
Yes we have plenty of modern cities, we also have electricity. Not to mention some of the most advanced research facilties in the world in medicine, physics, engineering, metallurgy, 5 of the 8 google fiber cities, etc.
Basing your opinion off of, amongst other things, trips to visit family in S.C. and a friend who had a bad experience at a wedding in Alabama does you a disservice. It would be like me basing my entire opinion of Vegas (and the surrounding area) on Cliven Bundy, prostitutes, gambling and Needles California ... It's just silly.
I've lived all over the U.S. (Including LA and NYC) and have only recently returned to the southeast and I can tell you from first hand experience that the South is no more f*cked up by a racial divide then the rest of the country, it just gets a lot more attention because of its history.
For the record, the type of flag you have in your own home is your business. But the confederate flag has no place in a public space. It is the banner of treason, sedition, and racism.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2015 9:40:03 GMT
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Post by IggyWiggy on Jun 26, 2015 16:08:04 GMT
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Post by Dr. Plip on Jun 27, 2015 15:30:11 GMT
Bree Newsome and colleagues removed the flag (briefly).
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