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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2016 19:34:34 GMT
Yes there is plenty of challenge, though it is of little substance. Banksy can advertise the Banksy brand and challenge social issues/status quo at the same time. The two aren't mutually exclusive. And that's OK.
As an artist becomes more successful, that artist invites more criticism. That's the game. Always has been.
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Post by IggyWiggy on Jan 26, 2016 19:48:19 GMT
Hoisted by your own petard.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2016 19:50:20 GMT
Hoisted by your own petard. I know, right?  |
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Post by lee3 on Jan 26, 2016 19:51:15 GMT
As an artist becomes more successful, that artist invites more criticism. That's the game. Always has been. Game? One anecdote to that claim would be that the criticism tends to be vocal only during an artist's lifetime. Unfortunately, it seems to require death for the outpouring of criticism to largely cease in most cases. Only posthumously do we collectively look in the rear view mirror most affectionately towards the artists of yesterday. I characterize that as unfortunate as it seems a pity to me that the artist's themselves never live to see their true mark on the world. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2016 20:02:37 GMT
As an artist becomes more successful, that artist invites more criticism. That's the game. Always has been. Game? One anecdote to that claim would be that the criticism tends to be vocal only during an artist's lifetime. Unfortunately, it seems to require death for the outpouring of criticism to largely cease in most cases. Only posthumously do we collectively look in the rear view mirror most affectionately towards the artists of yesterday. I characterize that as unfortunate as it seems a pity to me that the artist's themselves never live to see their true mark on the world. Interesting POV, Lee. I don't agree, but I appreciate your thoughtful response. Criticism during an artist's lifetime is a very positive and constructive thing. It pushes that artist in different directions. Causes that artist to work outside their comfort zone. Ultimately, it can lead to wonderful things. Yes, we tend to romanticize things after they are gone. But a true artist, one who isn't concerned with immediate gratification or attention, and creates only because they have to, probably doesn't care about seeing their true mark on the world. I can only speak for myself, but my art is not intended to leave a mark on anything other than my soul. |
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Post by Still Hate Thatcher on Jan 26, 2016 20:28:32 GMT
Hoisted by your own petard. Or, indeed, placard |
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Post by IggyWiggy on Jan 26, 2016 20:32:36 GMT
Hoisted by your own petard. Or, indeed, placard Touché |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2016 20:32:51 GMT
I would say B comfortably fits into the category of true artist, one whose carved his own path regardless of criticism, the underdog. The success of brand Banksy is a by product of what he is bound to do rather (I would guess) than the driving force that makes him go on doing what he does.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2016 20:42:45 GMT
I would say B comfortably fits into the category of true artist, one whose carved his own path regardless of criticism, the underdog. The success of brand Banksy is a by product of what he is bound to do rather (I would guess) than the driving force that makes him go on doing what he does. I don't know if Banksy is the underdog. That is certainly what they have worked very hard to make people believe. I've said it elsewhere and I will say it here, I believe that Banksy is a very well thought out and constructed entity. I believe that there are people behind the scenes who work very hard to sell that "every man, underdog, champion for the people" narrative. I believe that one of those people is Damien Hirst. Am I saying Banksy doesn't exist? No. I am saying Banksy (whoever you believe that person was) was co-opted and reinvented. Imagine if one day Damien Hirst comes out and admits what I believe is true. What would that do to your perception of Banksy? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2016 20:49:08 GMT
I would say B comfortably fits into the category of true artist, one whose carved his own path regardless of criticism, the underdog. The success of brand Banksy is a by product of what he is bound to do rather (I would guess) than the driving force that makes him go on doing what he does. I don't know if Banksy is the underdog. That is certainly what they have worked very hard to make people believe. I've said it elsewhere and I will say it here, I believe that Banksy is a very well thought out and constructed entity. I believe that there are people behind the scenes who work very hard to sell that "every man, underdog, champion for the people" narrative. I believe that one of those people is Damien Hirst. Am I saying Banksy doesn't exist? No. I am saying Banksy (whoever you believe that person was) was co-opted and reinvented. Imagine if one day Damien Hirst comes out and admits what I believe is true. What would that do to your perception of Banksy? I've no doubt there is others involved, that's obvious, what is it you think exactly? Of course he was the underdog, not now, everyone wants a piece of him, that wasn't always the case. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2016 20:57:46 GMT
I don't know if Banksy is the underdog. That is certainly what they have worked very hard to make people believe. I've said it elsewhere and I will say it here, I believe that Banksy is a very well thought out and constructed entity. I believe that there are people behind the scenes who work very hard to sell that "every man, underdog, champion for the people" narrative. I believe that one of those people is Damien Hirst. Am I saying Banksy doesn't exist? No. I am saying Banksy (whoever you believe that person was) was co-opted and reinvented. Imagine if one day Damien Hirst comes out and admits what I believe is true. What would that do to your perception of Banksy? I've no doubt there is others involved, that's obvious, what is it you think exactly? Of course he was the underdog, not now, everyone wants a piece of him, that wasn't always the case. I think Damien Hirst is a fucking genius. |
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Post by jeezuzjonessnr on Jan 26, 2016 20:59:07 GMT
Ah it's the guy that hates thatcher more than ISIS... We could all swear and bring nothing to the table. I have just voiced my opinion and without looking at polls it's probably the same opinion as the majority of people living in the UK (who are now racist cunts also according to your logic) If it was all rosy to bring them in why haven't the government done so. Not sure of the figures but only 5k applications I read after Xmas an a few hundred let in...? So the entire goverment are racist cunts also? Or just perhaps (rightly) looking at the bigger picture? They could be a little scared of what the outcome would be? Many terrorists amongst them, different religions and values (ie. Okay to go raping women, nye in Cologne) and reluctant to learn western values, will be living off handouts which will hurt the economy, the list goes on. How many are the yanks taking in? What about all the rich gulf states? They all racist cunts also..so that's the whole world being racist cunts.. 'Without looking at polls!' Sweet Jesus! Without checking my facts I'm going to generalise and talk shit, and apply the logic and thinking skills of a two year old suffering from foetal alcohol syndrome. Mate take a break from that hand job your seven fingered sister is giving you ( see we can all be abusive) and just look at Google yourself. 'More than Half of UK don't want more refugees'' and Germany having less compassion for the refugees' etc.. It's not just me on here, there's a lot of people thinking the same thing in many counties. Yes I feel sorry for them but tell me why haven't the government left many in already. What's the plan? What do you think should happen? To bring them all into a western society? If thousands move in maybe where ever you live can take them all in, you'll be overjoyed no doubt. |
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Post by notmattl on Jan 26, 2016 21:24:24 GMT
I think he must have the biggest fucking box of crayons in the whole world, look at how many different colours of spots he came up with ! Also anyone who uses life size sharks in his art is good in my book |
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Post by Still Hate Thatcher on Jan 26, 2016 21:34:59 GMT
'Without looking at polls!' Sweet Jesus! Without checking my facts I'm going to generalise and talk shit, and apply the logic and thinking skills of a two year old suffering from foetal alcohol syndrome. Mate take a break from that hand job your seven fingered sister is giving you ( see we can all be abusive) and just look at Google yourself. 'More than Half of UK don't want more refugees'' and Germany having less compassion for the refugees' etc.. It's not just me on here, there's a lot of people thinking the same thing in many counties. Yes I feel sorry for them but tell me why haven't the government left many in already. What's the plan? What do you think should happen? To bring them all into a western society? If thousands move in maybe where ever you live can take them all in, you'll be overjoyed no doubt. I understand. You like to build walls. Some of us like to build bridges. Walls enclose you, bridges connect you. You can see across a bridge. To see over a wall, you've got to be at the top, further down you can be told anything George Orwell wrote an essay about The Great Wall of China. You should read it. It's thought provoking, did they build the wall to keep people out, or keep people in? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2016 21:41:33 GMT
I think he must have the biggest fucking box of crayons in the whole world, look at how many different colours of spots he came up with ! Also anyone who uses life size sharks in his art is good in my book Golden horned and hoofed unicorns too! Wonder what he was trying to say with that at Dismaland? |
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Post by elvis on Jan 26, 2016 21:47:42 GMT
Nobody thinks Banksy is a messiah. LOL Banksy appears to be a crusader for many of our planet's hottest hot-button issues. Commenting on current controversial events is an easy way to get attention and keep your name in the papers. Celebrities have been doing this as long as there has been celebrity. I am not brainwashed enough to think Banksy is anything but a brand selling something. Sometimes it's a political POV, other times it's a 35K print, Dismaland tickets and tat, or million dollar original. Banksy's best work of art is Banksy. The expert use of guerrilla marketing, product placement, celebrity exploitation, and use of the new media makes it important. Completely agree Shady, this type of work for me makes Banksy fall into the style of crass Bono political soundbites or in this case imagery. But at least Bono is out there actively campaigning for what he believes in rather than making money off the back of building his brand on this type of stuff. Arguably, U2 would be even more popular if Bono wasn't seen as a bit of a campaigning bell-end. That said many celebs do a lot of positive work for charity but there's a fine line to whether they get more benefit than the cause itself. The anonymity of Banksy seems to give him pretty much a free ride to wade into whatever hot topic he wants with minimal challenge and most people seem to lap it up. A tad harsh mate. Good to question everything these days - so I'm not having a go at anyone for that. However, a lot of what you have written about Bono and Banksy Brand building is just your own supposition - and not factual. On Banksy's anonymity giving him a 'free ride' to wade into whatever "hot" topic he wants... You would have to say he is at least consistent with his political leanings...and more often than not, brings these topics to the forefront of his fans and others. If you think people don't challenge it - you only need to read the comments section in the Daily Mail about this recent street piece to realise that there are plenty of people who are putting forward the counter argument. What is important to remember, when there are so many vocal right wing commentators and lobbyists out there in the mainstream UK press, the fact that Banksy adds his views to the debate, does pretty little to redress the balance. I just wished Her Majesty's opposition, and politics in general, was more effective. |
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Post by jeezuzjonessnr on Jan 26, 2016 22:28:51 GMT
Mate take a break from that hand job your seven fingered sister is giving you ( see we can all be abusive) and just look at Google yourself. 'More than Half of UK don't want more refugees'' and Germany having less compassion for the refugees' etc.. It's not just me on here, there's a lot of people thinking the same thing in many counties. Yes I feel sorry for them but tell me why haven't the government left many in already. What's the plan? What do you think should happen? To bring them all into a western society? If thousands move in maybe where ever you live can take them all in, you'll be overjoyed no doubt. I understand. You like to build walls. Some of us like to build bridges. Walls enclose you, bridges connect you. You can see across a bridge. To see over a wall, you've got to be at the top, further down you can be told anything George Orwell wrote an essay about The Great Wall of China. You should read it. It's thought provoking, did they build the wall to keep people out, or keep people in? When I went to the wall there was a huge section missing so it didn't do a good job for either!  What's George's take on radical Islam and Islam being mixed with western society and what the future holds? Did he write anything on this? Genuine question.. |
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Post by ouroboros on Jan 26, 2016 23:16:13 GMT
I've read a load or Orwell- not come across any direct reference to Islam - it wasnt an issue at the time he was kicking about I s'pose, unless you were involved in the flailings of the dying ottoman empire. It would be far easier to review orwell with reference to the propaganda setup we witness everyday. Didnt Orwell (snottishly , in 1984) say that the proletariat were kept in line with music manufactured by machines,game shows on telly box, beer and gambling ? Now that is something to be built upon
Wary of using any snippets that may emerge as any kind of divining fork to elicit orwells opinion of Islam innit.
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Post by jeezuzjonessnr on Jan 27, 2016 10:46:49 GMT
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Post by IggyWiggy on Jan 27, 2016 11:21:43 GMT
 [unless you're doing some kind of ironic parody of jayda fransen] |
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Post by IggyWiggy on Jan 27, 2016 12:34:23 GMT
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Post by Dr. Plip on Jan 27, 2016 12:50:53 GMT
Thank Christ for Google. I forgive them for not paying their morally fair share of tax. |
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Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Jan 27, 2016 13:28:07 GMT
Thank Christ for Google. I forgive them for not paying their morally fair share of tax. weird site... what's with the NUTS placard squirrel? |
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Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Jan 27, 2016 19:23:42 GMT
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Post by jeezuzjonessnr on Jan 27, 2016 20:45:53 GMT
[unless you're doing some kind of ironic parody of jayda fransen] I didnt know who she was? Civil war |
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