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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 19:52:07 GMT
hate to talk money, but i would suggest it has peaked, the death star is full of sellers atm
good
hope no one got sucked into a big outlay in the hope of a big turnaround profit, or just got caught in the hype and spent more than they could afford
i may be able to get the one or two i want for the walls ( that male thang) in the next year, and not worry about the cost as much
its only a bit of paper with a derived image on anyway
and like viz. not ad funny as it used to be about a decade ago
pleae, no undegrad economiucs responses about value and QE E-Z money. this isnt the place for it. and like all economists, you would be wrong anyway.in the long run .
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Post by IggyWiggy on Jun 14, 2015 20:00:40 GMT
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Post by alittle on Jun 14, 2015 20:04:01 GMT
It doesn't seem like much more selling than normal, does it? It seemed like there has always been a rather healthy supply available.
That being said, I think there was a lot of panic buying that fuelled the ridiculous price increases we've seen on unsigned prints in the last year. I don't see that type of growth as sustainable, and am not surprised to see that level off, or even show a bit of retrenchment.
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Post by disdig1 on Jun 14, 2015 20:04:23 GMT
it may have leveled off for the moment but nowhere near bursting.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 20:17:13 GMT
There's much more availability of most prints now than there was 12 / 18 months ago. If it's a bubble, it can burst and now's as good a time as any. It would be wonderful for prices to basically collapse and for the secondary market as it is today to disappear up it's own arse, I could then go shopping.
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Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Jun 14, 2015 20:23:56 GMT
as a non-owner of any Banksy prints, my two cents is that unsigned prints have risen to the point where it no longer seems worth it to even think about buying one. If I'm going to be paying big $$ for a print (by any artist, but especially a living one) I'd except it to have a signature scrawled on it. I don't equate that to a bubble bursting though - just things leveling off. Even as Banksy's fame grows and grows, there's only a finite number of people who have that much money to spend
edit - I'll also add that as urban art grows in popularity, the supply and demand balance for Banksy prints is going to be thrown off, but at the same time, the amount of popular artists that people collect is also growing, giving collectors a lot of options for spending their hard earned cash
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Post by dot on Jun 14, 2015 20:26:36 GMT
nah it's not happening.. imo either.
it's happening to a certain extent but it rate that.. fwiw in only certain respects - otherwise it's as before.
the sought after works are simply not coming back on the market.
the dip on the other side is rare event.
..anyone seen a litta fs recently for a reasonable sum ? nope - last time when you did ?
.. i'm not going to even mention the girl with a red .... pop !
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 20:27:27 GMT
Maybe theres a reason there seems to be a few more selling pieces lately...collapsing Banksy market isnt it though...
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Post by notmattl on Jun 14, 2015 20:34:56 GMT
Anyone who is buying or selling prints right now (and by that I mean the standard ones, not the crazy ones) will know that the market has slowed.
For every print you will have multiple offers, and more than enough time to decide. If it is overpriced, or priced at the max price paid a few weeks ago, it does not sell as quick.
Why ? I have no clue. Where does it go from here ? Ditto. But it is a slower market.
For those dreaming of a collapse, don't hold your breath tough. The simple fact that if the prices did plummet everyone here would be frantically buying, is the very reason why the prices won't plummet.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 21:28:00 GMT
Maybe theres a reason there seems to be a few more selling pieces lately...collapsing Banksy market isnt it though... I never mentioned collapse, rather pointing in the direction of the new normal being established ( see the references of Premier Li Keqiang this year). Trouble is the new normal isnt new, its just like the old one, but with a bit of reality injected. someone emtioned LIITA - been offered a minter today woith CoA for a couple of grand - hence me post - and I know he will take ( a symbolic if not significat amount) less for a cash deal this week - I couldnt have done this in the past year or so I think. I going to have to think about this of I can get some time. Not in econmic terms , thats tiresome and fraught with einbahnstrasses, but in like a wider social arena anyone got any thoughts to get me going ? Liita for couple grand? Buy it  |
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Post by lonelyfarmer on Jun 14, 2015 21:38:15 GMT
If summats priced to sell it will sell.
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Post by carlcashman on Jun 14, 2015 23:56:28 GMT
Burst, I doubt .. Slowed more than likely.
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Post by jeezuzjonessnr on Jun 15, 2015 1:09:34 GMT
Good post by Fed above regarding popularity of other artists.. I think the past year we have seen so many artists selling work through instagram etc. it seems weekly we get to check out 3/4 new artists. Buying these (mainly hyped) works may temporarily slow the Banksy market - but the majority of these artists I very much doubt we will hear of in a few years time?. Whereas Banksy will always have a market ie. due to little supply, being a pioneer etc etc...
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Post by tartarus on Jun 15, 2015 9:55:33 GMT
Everything is slow at the moment. Theres plenty of stuff thats hanging around that was once snapped up. Seems like theres a lack of available cash at the moment so people are spending less.
Banksy has these rises and then settles and then has little dips according to the things he is doing at the time. BOTI being the last cause for a rise. That got out to a ton more people and they flooded in to buy, the "market" helped this with the rapid increase in expectations. Since then he has done a few pieces and the hype (media wise) has dwindled. Thats led to a settling of the crazy prices it created and now we see it settle back. If he did something big again this year I'm sure it would pick up again. But the factor of another 5 years of poverty will no doubt make some wonder if they want a high value print or some decent financial security about them. An obvious decision to have to make, and one many will be making at the moment i would guess.
So there will be less interest, and more sellers, i think the out come is pretty inevitable. However it doesn't have any effect on Banksy interest as he is so established already. So once the money is there, the buyers will be too.
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Post by eschiff on Jun 15, 2015 10:49:37 GMT
it's all relative innit? I bought an unsigned barcode less than about a year ago for around 3500. I now need to sell it to fund my wedding. 6-months ago maybe it would've been snapped up for 7500 in less than a day. Now it seems to be around 7->7.2. Is that a dip? Is that prices crashing? I don't think so but I guess if you bought one at 7.5 6-months ago maybe you're perturbed about the 250 quid? Even then...I think the purchaser is pretty happy with their piece of art.
I think I'll put it on ebay at .99 with no reserve this afternoon for a 7-day auction so we shall see (though if anyone wants it before then hit me up! (framed by John Jones, COA, etc etc)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 16:40:01 GMT
Think your right @esciff may be a bit here or there as it were but that's about it. But the factor of another 5 years of poverty will no doubt make some wonder if they want a high value print or some decent financial security about them. An obvious decision to have to make, and one many will be making at the moment i would guess. Read more: notbanksyforum.com/thread/786/banksy-bubble-burst#tartarus understand you don't like the Tories but they did not get voted in by the poor as it were. Pretty certain that those who pay 10k for a Banksy print are not expecting 5 years of poverty. If anything they will probably become better off over the next 5 years not everyone will but the wealthy in England do not seem to be getting poorer . I would suggest rather than all the babble. The market will pretty much say what is going on with prices on Wed Bonhams British master print Sale Lot 98AR BANKSY, (British, born 1975) Weston-Super-Mare £5,000 - 7,000 €6,900 - 9,700 US$ 7,700 - 11,000 Lot 99AR BANKSY, (British, born 1975) Gangsta Rat £10,000 - 15,000 €14,000 - 21,000 US$ 15,000 - 23,000 Lot 100AR BANKSY, (British, born 1975) Happy Choppers £6,000 - 8,000 €8,300 - 11,000 Lot 101AR BANKSY, (British, born 1975) Kate Moss (Original Colourway) £35,000 - 55,000 €48,000 - 76,000 Lot 102AR BANKSY, (British, born 1975) Balloon Girl £20,000 - 30,000 €28,000 - 41,000 Those are the lots. Now by the time Vat, Commission and Banksy's artist rights go on I would suggest if they all sell or 4/5 sell even at just over the base rate then his works will be pretty much holding their own and no great worries. However if for example only 1or 2 sell I would suggest there is a bit of an issue with either the auction marketing by Bonhams or with the sales of Banksy works. I tend to have a feeling they will sell but let's see. It's a pretty reflective and good cross section of works all signed so at the higher end of the market lets say. It will be interesting how it plays out Ps. Before being asked. I am not a Torie never have been and never will be. |
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Post by lee3 on Jun 15, 2015 17:55:37 GMT
>>>Now by the time Vat, Commission and Banksy's artist rights go on I would suggest if they all sell or 4/5 sell even at just over the base rate then his works will be pretty much holding their own and no great worries.<<<
If that is your metric, rest easy. Every one of those lots (inclusive of premium) will exceed the high estimate and in the one case where it might not (Kate) it will sell much closer to the high estimate than the low. There is no chance that any of those go unsold unless there are grave condition issues. Further, as you noted the buyer will be responsible for adding VAT (if applicable), artist rights plus and shipping to the final price making the actual sum paid significantly higher. If I were looking for any of those (I'm not) I would expect to be paying 8k+ for WSM, 20k+ for the rat, 12k+ for HC, 40k+ for Kate and 40k+ for GWB. There is just no chance that they go unsold which is not to confuse realism with overconfidence.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 18:11:36 GMT
lee3 fully agree that's my point really his market has moved and I also reckon these will all sell at a decent rate. Bonhams are a good house so would assume the buyers are notified etc. My point is there are lots f opinions my own included but the real anwser on this thread will be if the market buys these pieces and at what price Eg if the bid price on WSM is 6 it will mean it costing in the 8 region if they all do similar corresponding figs which will not take a lot of bids it pretty much solves this discussion. Just as them not selling does but like yourself I very much doubt they won't sell
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Post by dungle on Jun 15, 2015 19:20:16 GMT
Is there a pic of the day thread on here anywhere?, can someone do one please. pic@picturesofwalls  I like the idea of a picture of the day thread. |
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Post by IggyWiggy on Jun 15, 2015 19:28:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 19:57:01 GMT
I never mentioned collapse, rather pointing in the direction of the new normal being established ( see the references of Premier Li Keqiang this year). Trouble is the new normal isnt new, its just like the old one, but with a bit of reality injected. someone emtioned LIITA - been offered a minter today woith CoA for a couple of grand - hence me post - and I know he will take ( a symbolic if not significat amount) less for a cash deal this week - I couldnt have done this in the past year or so I think. I going to have to think about this of I can get some time. Not in econmic terms , thats tiresome and fraught with einbahnstrasses, but in like a wider social arena anyone got any thoughts to get me going ? Liita for couple grand? Buy it you fucking bastard. I deleeted my post , but you were too quick, it now seems my niaive openness has backfired the price has gone up as I went to close today grrrr * shakes fist at sky* |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 20:05:43 GMT
Liita for couple grand? Buy it you fucking bastard. I deleeted my post , but you were too quick, it now seems my niaive openness has backfired the price has gone up as I went to close today grrrr * shakes fist at sky* Ammm sorry fella, i genuinely thought you were over exaggerating on the low price, if it makes you feel better i took the dog to the beach yesterday...she ate dead things and drank sea water...today shes been fartin and spittin diarrhoea everywhere |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 20:09:14 GMT
@achungbono pleae, no undegrad economiucs responses about value and QE E-Z money. this isnt the place for it. and like all economists, you would be wrong anyway.in the long run . Read more: notbanksyforum.com/thread/786/banksy-bubble-burstHe he it's not Value you should have read some good undergrads economics about price!!!! Price, the amount of money that has to be paid to acquire a given product. Insofar as the amount people are prepared to pay for a product represents its value, price is also a measure of value. It follows from the definition just stated that prices perform an economic function of major significance. So long as they are not artificially controlled, prices provide an economic mechanism by which goods and services are distributed among the large number of people desiring them. They also act as indicators of the strength of demand for different products and enable producers to respond accordingly. This system is known as the price mechanism and is based on the principle that only by allowing prices to move freely will the supply of any given commodity match demand. If supply is excessive, prices will be low and production will be reduced; this will cause prices to rise until there is a balance of demand and supply. In the same way, if supply is inadequate, prices will be high, leading to an increase in production that in turn will lead to a reduction in prices until both supply and demand are in equilibrium.  . Apologies but couldn't resist!!! |
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Post by sɐǝpı ɟo uoıʇɐɹǝpǝɟ on Jun 15, 2015 20:21:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 20:31:21 GMT
Ammm sorry fella, i genuinely thought you were over exaggerating on the low price, if it makes you feel better i took the dog to the beach yesterday...she ate dead things and drank sea water...today shes been fartin and spittin diarrhoea everywhere no harm done. weak image anyway. |
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